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What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? #2705211
10/09/19 03:38 PM
10/09/19 03:38 PM
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New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Chargerfan68  Offline OP
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Just curious: the last 2 engines that i’ve personally seen on the dyno were 1.31 and 1.21 hp/ci. These are both pump gas street motors that race a few times a year.

Eng 1: sb chevy 400 10.5:1 afr210 heads with single plane intake hp950 carb. Bullett hyd roller .612” and 240’s dur@.050”
495 lb ft. And 524 hp @6300


Eng 2: bb chry 505 10.6:1. Stealth std port hesds with indy dual plane Hp 950 carb. Comp solid roller 573” and 248-254 dur @.050”
630 lb ft @4500 and 609 hp @5900.


Being that peak tq of eng 1 was above 5250 rpm, is that why hp was greater than tq? And does this mean that the cyl head breathing was better comparing to the other engine, being the reason why hp wss greater than tq? What else can we surmise?

Last edited by Chargerfan68; 10/09/19 04:19 PM.

1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705250
10/09/19 05:50 PM
10/09/19 05:50 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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My last pump gas low deck stroker made 727 HP at 7000 RPM with around 675 Ft. lbs. around 5200 RPM on Oregon 91 octane pump swill with no Ethanol in Klamath Falls, OR which is right at 4300 Ft. above sea level on a DTS engine dyno.
The motor was a 400 block bored to 4.375 with a 4.300 stroke crankshaft which was 517 C.I. with right at 10.78 to 1 compression, it had a set of Indy SR heads with M.W. intake ports and a Indy 400-3 intake with a Holley List # 9375 non HP carb. with stock jetting up The cam was a comp Cams solid roller lifter grind with 260@ .050 on the intake with .420 lobe lift and 266@.050 on the exhaust with .409 lobe lift , Harland Sharp 1.65 ratio single shaft roller rocker arms up That makes it have 1.406 HP per C.I., not bad but not the best either shruggy
I had that motor in my old 1971 Duster that weighed 3450 Lbs. with me in it ready to race with full stock gas tank, it ran a best ever of 9.993 at 134.7 MPH at Woodburn, OR drag strip in August of 2008 or 2009, CRS, cork up full 3.0 inch diameter exhaust system to the rear bumper with the air cleaner on.
That motor and that car far exceeded my wildest dreams boogie grin
I've thought of building another 1970/71 pump gas street Duster to see how much better I can make it run with what I learned from the last one devil whistling
Probably not going to happen now though due to many other car projects in front of that desire shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/09/19 05:53 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705268
10/09/19 07:18 PM
10/09/19 07:18 PM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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In the end, I think this still comes down to an individual's opinion on what "good" street is. I like my cars to be very mild mannered on the street, and I usually shoot for 1.10 to 1.15 on an engine dyno. You can build it with parts from Summit, and stuff it in a car with a stock-ish torque converter and a 3.23 gear.

Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705269
10/09/19 07:21 PM
10/09/19 07:21 PM
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Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Originally Posted by Chargerfan68
Just curious: the last 2 engines that i’ve personally seen on the dyno were 1.31 and 1.21 hp/ci. These are both pump gas street motors that race a few times a year.

Eng 1: sb chevy 400 10.5:1 afr210 heads with single plane intake hp950 carb. Bullett hyd roller .612” and 240’s dur@.050”
495 lb ft. And 524 hp @6300


Eng 2: bb chry 505 10.6:1. Stealth std port hesds with indy dual plane Hp 950 carb. Comp solid roller 573” and 248-254 dur @.050”
630 lb ft @4500 and 609 hp @5900.


Being that peak tq of eng 1 was above 5250 rpm, is that why hp was greater than tq? And does this mean that the cyl head breathing was better comparing to the other engine, being the reason why hp wss greater than tq? What else can we surmise?


my thought s on your question .
The SBC probably has effectively bigger head , bigger cam and better intake . This makes HP and higher RPM peak
The BBM has effectively smaller head , cam , carb and intake . Better TQ less HP and lower RPM peak .
The AFR head is probably a superior head also unless the Stealth is a CNC head or really well prepped .

Tex

Last edited by tex013; 10/09/19 07:22 PM.

New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
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Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: tex013] #2705280
10/09/19 07:56 PM
10/09/19 07:56 PM
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Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
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From the limited information I know when the HP and TQ numbers are close it's typically because either the heads don't flow some big number, or its a lower RPM build. I built my wife a 408 (351W stroker). When we dyno'd it, it made like 510 TQ (I forget the RPM). and 535 HP at 5800. It's just a basic build, 10.7:1, AFR 185 heads, Victor Jr Intake, .571/.592 solid flat tappet cam. The engine builder said he'd really like to see the AFR 205 heads on it, but I compared the 185 vs 205 and even talked to AFR and the only way the 205 would be beneficial is if I got a bigger cam and twisted it more RPM. She shifts it at 6000, traps at 6200. The motor has ran in the 10.6-10.7s in a 3000 lb car. I built it to be a low maintenance, lower rpm build and not twist the guts out of it so it'll live a long time. It all really comes down to how hard you want to twist the engine. No sense in building a engine that peaks at 7-8K if your only going to run it to 6K.

Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705281
10/09/19 07:56 PM
10/09/19 07:56 PM
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polyspheric Offline
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Power per inch doesn't scale, small engines always have an advantage. This was known 100 years ago.
Just build a bigger motor and ignore power per inch.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: polyspheric] #2705301
10/09/19 08:55 PM
10/09/19 08:55 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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The easy answer for these two examples is...... the cfm/ci is better for engine 1.

Take engine 2, install some TF270’s and a racy single plane and watch the hp/ci go up.

Engine 1 has about 5.5cfm/ci.
Engine 2 is closer to 4.6.

The TF270’s would put the 505 in the 5.5cfm/ci range.

The better heads should put the 505 in the 1.30-1.40 hp/ci range.

The current two combos have the bigger motor making more tq/ci.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: BSB67] #2705312
10/09/19 09:23 PM
10/09/19 09:23 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Originally Posted by BSB67
In the end, I think this still comes down to an individuals opinion on what "good" street is. I like my cars to be very mild mannered on the street, and I usually shoot for 1.10 to 1.15 on an engine dyno. You can build it with parts from Summit, and stuff it in a car with a stock-ish torque converter and a 3.23 gear.


Funny you say that........
446 just came off the dyno.......KB flat tops, prepped RPM heads, SD, 850DP, 1-7/8” headers, 230’s hyd roller.
535tq/515hp, pump gas.

Going in a 71 Charger with a 5 speed........ will have EFI in the car.
Owner wanted it pretty mild mannered.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: polyspheric] #2705314
10/09/19 09:26 PM
10/09/19 09:26 PM
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UK
rb446 Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Power per inch doesn't scale, small engines always have an advantage. This was known 100 years ago.
Just build a bigger motor and ignore power per inch.


A friend of mine has just bought a motor for his s/strip Roadrunner to step things up for next years racing and cruising, unusual spec for such a big motor>

589ci street wedge, 572-13's, 10:1, small solid roller .620", made 705hp/750ft lbs on the dyno with a single 850DP, his car will drive like a Cadillac and run mid>low 10's in the 1/4. Plenty of potential with head porting, a cam/carb upgrade when he gets fed up with the 10's.... has enough head to do it.

Last edited by rb446; 10/09/19 09:27 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: rb446] #2705319
10/09/19 09:31 PM
10/09/19 09:31 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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I am addicted to larger engines in a street car....Torque is what gets the car moving....Ever drive something on the street with 750ft/lbs on tap?

If I could afford a +650 Goodwin Hemi, I would have one in my street car....

Our little 400/512 is making 755hp, and I would drive that on the street anywhere if that car were street legal.

Last edited by Dragula; 10/09/19 09:33 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705331
10/09/19 09:58 PM
10/09/19 09:58 PM
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Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: BradH] #2705339
10/09/19 10:44 PM
10/09/19 10:44 PM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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My 235 makes right at 1.06. boogie


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: slantzilla] #2705345
10/09/19 11:12 PM
10/09/19 11:12 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Boost is a wonderfull thing! Can do wonders on pump gas whistling


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: hemi-itis] #2705349
10/09/19 11:20 PM
10/09/19 11:20 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
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Originally Posted by hemi-itis
Boost is a wonderfull thing! Can do wonders on pump gas whistling


apimp gas ... lotsa boost ...

8E9C8C85-3282-415B-B52C-69C3BBC4BB49.png
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2705359
10/10/19 12:30 AM
10/10/19 12:30 AM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Originally Posted by hemi-itis
Boost is a wonderfull thing! Can do wonders on pump gas whistling


apimp gas ... lotsa boost ...


Looks like NOS with a cast piston!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705376
10/10/19 02:20 AM
10/10/19 02:20 AM
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Build the biggest motor you can and pick the cam to match the charactoristics you want for the street, depending on what you are willing to tolerate for street manners. The hp and torque will be what they will be.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: gregsdart] #2705402
10/10/19 07:27 AM
10/10/19 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Build the biggest motor you can and pick the cam to match the charactoristics you want for the street, depending on what you are willing to tolerate for street manners. The hp and torque will be what they will be.


Couldn't agree any more! A big mild motor will give you all the torque you can handle and live forever. The rest of the drivetrain will tell you where the weak link is.

Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2705462
10/10/19 10:25 AM
10/10/19 10:25 AM
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krautrock Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by BSB67
In the end, I think this still comes down to an individuals opinion on what "good" street is. I like my cars to be very mild mannered on the street, and I usually shoot for 1.10 to 1.15 on an engine dyno. You can build it with parts from Summit, and stuff it in a car with a stock-ish torque converter and a 3.23 gear.


Funny you say that........
446 just came off the dyno.......KB flat tops, prepped RPM heads, SD, 850DP, 1-7/8” headers, 230’s hyd roller.
535tq/515hp, pump gas.

Going in a 71 Charger with a 5 speed........ will have EFI in the car.
Owner wanted it pretty mild mannered.


in a build like this, would the trick flow 240 heads make much difference?

Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: krautrock] #2705482
10/10/19 11:04 AM
10/10/19 11:04 AM
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UK
rb446 Offline
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in a build like this, would the trick flow 240 heads make much difference?
[

All depends on what level the Eddy's have been prepped to and the cam lift used. TF claim their 240 head flows 318cfm@.550", ootb Eddy's are around 271@.550 if your lucky, also 78cc for TF's and if 84cc eddy's were used on that build it could screw up the CR if already on the limit for p/gas......my 2c's.


1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: What do you think a good HP/CI is for a street/strip engine? [Re: Chargerfan68] #2705534
10/10/19 01:29 PM
10/10/19 01:29 PM
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by Chargerfan68
Being that peak tq of eng 1 was above 5250 rpm, is that why hp was greater than tq? And does this mean that the cyl head breathing was better comparing to the other engine, being the reason why hp wss greater than tq? What else can we surmise?

I believe the intake type, single plane versus a dual plane, and the compression ratio have a lot to do on when the motor will make peak torque and HP.
The carb and cam size are a real player on that also of course work
I've notice that most of the pump gas street motors I've built and dyno tested, stock stroke or stroked, will make more torque than HP if the compression ratio is under 10.5 to 1, above that they tend to make more HP than torque shruggy work scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/10/19 01:30 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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