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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#1620311
07/12/14 12:28 AM
07/12/14 12:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quote:
Quote:
I myself am just wondering how effective the burst plates are in the front side and the rear side of the RR intake, seems to me they would be more effective if they were on top of the lid more near the center? 
I cannot answer your question with my own experience, as I have yet to use my RR intake. However, I placed them where they are, as recommended by a board member, with a lot of experience with the RR intakes and modifications to the same. 
Mark
Shooting from the hip here, but I think it might be important to try and not compare an intake back fire to a normal combustion chamber ignition event, mainly not compressed to 180+psi prior to ignition and only 2"? max flame travel vs a partial manifold vacuum with 12 or more inches of flame travel. I suspect also that we are not talking long ram style intakes which would develop a certain amount of column inertia during a backfire. The most important point I think to consider is the large partial vacuum intake plenum likely works as a pretty good pressure shock absorber as the backfire begins, and the burst reliever has a lot more time to vent this pressure as the backfire takes place, and the pressure is pretty well distributed because of the relatively large volume, and where the burst panel is located would should not be as critical, more will it flow enough outflow to keep pressure spike workable. Ideally though more centrally located would be best, but knowing in advance which cyl starts the back fire would also mean one knows which cylinder to focus on to prevent it, if it's only one. As much as I may be minimizing the pressures, it is still a large energy pulse. I also have a bridge for sale. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#1620314
07/12/14 08:47 AM
07/12/14 08:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 976
ontario canada
mac56
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 976
ontario canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I myself am just wondering how effective the burst plates are in the front side and the rear side of the RR intake, seems to me they would be more effective if they were on top of the lid more near the center?
I cannot answer your question with my own experience, as I have yet to use my RR intake. However, I placed them where they are, as recommended by a board member, with a lot of experience with the RR intakes and modifications to the same.
Mark
It should not matter where it is. The pressure will be equal in all direction. It is similiar to a relief valve in a hydraulic system. The relief valve can be anywhere on the pressure side of the system.
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: mac56]
#1620315
07/12/14 11:39 AM
07/12/14 11:39 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,414
St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
David_in_St_Croi
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,414
St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
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Try Mcmaster-Carr for the nylon machine screws. Here is the online page: http://www.mcmaster.com/#machine-screws/=ssz3ewAr 6.42 for a bag of 100 1" long 10-24 in black you could replace them every 3 months for several years if you are worried about UV. Since you are up in Babylon you can use UPS instead of the usual fight to convince companies (Mcmaster is actually better than most) to use the USPS and that the USPS CAN deliver to a USPS Post Office Box....... Now you guys have me all nervous about my Weiand tunnel ram.....
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: roadhazard]
#1620317
07/13/14 03:21 AM
07/13/14 03:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
Is this what your looking for but in a 10-24 size?
You want to use a 6/6 Nylon 
Might help if I included the link  
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00137OQTU/ref=...ASIN=B00137OQTU
I see that is the metric equivalent. Is 6/6 UV protected? We have major issues with white nylon zip ties out here. They become brittle in less than a year when fully exposed. Being a streeter our car spends time parked at the growers market, etc. throughout the summer.
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1620318
07/13/14 10:30 AM
07/13/14 10:30 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is this what your looking for but in a 10-24 size?
You want to use a 6/6 Nylon
Might help if I included the link
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00137OQTU/ref=...ASIN=B00137OQTU
I see that is the metric equivalent. Is 6/6 UV protected? We have major issues with white nylon zip ties out here. They become brittle in less than a year when fully exposed. Being a streeter our car spends time parked at the growers market, etc. throughout the summer.
Yes it's metric, just attached the link to see if it's the same head type your looking for (tapered?). They seem to be a little difficult to locate in SAE Tapered Seat.
The 6/6 Nylon is what they make valve stem seals out of, however they are 30% glass filled (fiberglass). Nylon valve seals are tough as nails and live in a very harsh environment hence my recommendation for 6/6 Nylon. I really have no idea what they make Zip Ties out of. Probably a lot of re-ground junk would be my guess.
My Yahoo search for "6/6 Nylon Machine Screws" turned up more than Google. You can also search "Images" and follow the links
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Porter67]
#1620320
07/13/14 02:04 PM
07/13/14 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
DusterDave
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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McMaster-Carr also sells aluminum and titanium bolts and studs. Just sayin'.
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: roadhazard]
#1620321
07/13/14 03:06 PM
07/13/14 03:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is this what your looking for but in a 10-24 size?
You want to use a 6/6 Nylon
Might help if I included the link
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00137OQTU/ref=...ASIN=B00137OQTU
I see that is the metric equivalent. Is 6/6 UV protected? We have major issues with white nylon zip ties out here. They become brittle in less than a year when fully exposed. Being a streeter our car spends time parked at the growers market, etc. throughout the summer.
Yes it's metric, just attached the link to see if it's the same head type your looking for (tapered?). They seem to be a little difficult to locate in SAE Tapered Seat.
The 6/6 Nylon is what they make valve stem seals out of, however they are 30% glass filled (fiberglass). Nylon valve seals are tough as nails and live in a very harsh environment hence my recommendation for 6/6 Nylon. I really have no idea what they make Zip Ties out of. Probably a lot of re-ground junk would be my guess.
My Yahoo search for "6/6 Nylon Machine Screws" turned up more than Google. You can also search "Images" and follow the links
I'll do a bit more research. My prior investigation also turned up lots of metric options for "flat" (tapered) machine screws as well. As far as the zip ties we use they are black UV resistant and about 50 cents a piece. They may be made out of recycled junk but they do their job in very harsh environments for years and years without becoming brittle or shearing. I'll look into that as well.
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1620322
07/13/14 04:10 PM
07/13/14 04:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Almost anything black nylon has inherent UV resistance greater then white Nylon. can;t imagine under hood UV on a bolt head of nylon would ever succumb to UV issues. They are cheap enough to toss rather then reuse.
Awhile back it was mentioned the manifold issues are similar to "hydraulics", if you discount the the concept that a liquid is for all intents and purposes non compressible and air is, and the speed of the pressure spike is much faster in a liquid (for example speed of sound in air 343 m/s vs 1461 m/s in oil), allowing less time for flow to displace volume/pressure thru the burst panel.
Nobody has an issue with a partially separated TR top acting like a WO stuck throttle?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1620323
07/13/14 05:53 PM
07/13/14 05:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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So sad... only 2 choices:
Do nothing (always popular), or spend $75 × how many?
No engineers here? Not sure which side of the boat hull to put the patch on?
Since there isn't any positive pressure unless something goes wrong (the complete opposite of a blower manifold) a holesaw and a big piece of duct tape works just fine. Fails instantly with any cough (which the small panels won't do until their pre-set is reached).
Wonder why they put stuff down a demo hole after the dynamite? Because the expansion in the first few milliseconds is very important.
Just imagine the facial expression when a sneeze wrecks the carbs, dents the hood, bends up the linkage and tears the fuel line off!!!
Well, except for the annoying comments of the skin-packaged billet color-anodized speed equipment enthusiasts...
[/rant]
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: jcc]
#1620324
07/14/14 04:46 AM
07/14/14 04:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
Almost anything black nylon has inherent UV resistance greater then white Nylon. can;t imagine under hood UV on a bolt head of nylon would ever succumb to UV issues. They are cheap enough to toss rather then reuse.
Awhile back it was mentioned the manifold issues are similar to "hydraulics", if you discount the the concept that a liquid is for all intents and purposes non compressible and air is, and the speed of the pressure spike is much faster in a liquid (for example speed of sound in air 343 m/s vs 1461 m/s in oil), allowing less time for flow to displace volume/pressure thru the burst panel.
Nobody has an issue with a partially separated TR top acting like a WO stuck throttle?
1) My tunnel ram will not be under the hood. UV protection is important.
2) If the car backfired and popped the manifolds lid off the mixture is going so lean it's not running anymore...I think?
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Re: Burst Plate(s) on Tunnel Ram
[Re: polyspheric]
#1620325
07/14/14 04:51 AM
07/14/14 04:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
So sad... only 2 choices:
Do nothing (always popular), or spend $75 × how many?
No engineers here? Not sure which side of the boat hull to put the patch on?
Since there isn't any positive pressure unless something goes wrong (the complete opposite of a blower manifold) a holesaw and a big piece of duct tape works just fine. Fails instantly with any cough (which the small panels won't do until their pre-set is reached).
Wonder why they put stuff down a demo hole after the dynamite? Because the expansion in the first few milliseconds is very important.
Just imagine the facial expression when a sneeze wrecks the carbs, dents the hood, bends up the linkage and tears the fuel line off!!!
Well, except for the annoying comments of the skin-packaged billet color-anodized speed equipment enthusiasts...
[/rant]
I'm not sure if you are saying I am smart of retarded for adding burst plated. I have considered playing with the springs to see how light I can go without causing a vacuum leak.
If you wanted to avoid bending butterflies on your Quickfuels at 6am on the way to work when the lean misfire occurs (stick car) what would you do? Please write this response in English. I don't speak /rant.
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