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Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2698883
09/19/19 08:40 AM
09/19/19 08:40 AM
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flint michigan
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Went back thru some notes and Dwayne did say my spring pressures look good for 7000RPM. Someone else said they thought they were light. If they are what i was told they look good to me, but need checking for sure. I like the LSM tool for checking seat pressure on the head. Which pressure is most importance, the seat or the open?

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700149
09/23/19 02:28 PM
09/23/19 02:28 PM
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N.E. Ohio
GomangoCuda Online content
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Quote
Which pressure is most importance, the seat or the open?


Which ever one is off by enough to damage the cam or valve train parts. Sorry but if either open or closed pressures are too high or too low then Carnage is the result.

Last edited by GomangoCuda; 09/23/19 02:30 PM.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: GomangoCuda] #2700152
09/23/19 02:37 PM
09/23/19 02:37 PM
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Also with that much lift you have to check for coil bind and retainer to valve guide/seal clearance.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: GomangoCuda] #2700250
09/23/19 08:03 PM
09/23/19 08:03 PM
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flint michigan
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Ok, Todd at Compitition wedge engines contacted me about the springs and wants to test them his self. He also cleared up some misunderstandings of mine about the Victor MW heads. One piece of advise he gave me was to not buy any of those portable spring compressors. Just waiting for him to send his address. Thanks guys

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700263
09/23/19 08:31 PM
09/23/19 08:31 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Todd is a well respected member,and I mean him no disrespect,,,,,,,,,but in your location there are several machine shops that could give you a good squeeze,,,,,,and your springs too! work


HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

New best 60ft,, 1.42,1/8, 6.0 @117,, 9.38 @146.75 with 6 lbs boost @3700 lbs
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700264
09/23/19 08:40 PM
09/23/19 08:40 PM
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Spintron has revealed something not believed possible decades ago: "these 600 lb. spring are permitting the parts to separate at several different RPM levels". Right - not just float at peak RPM.
Assuming safe break-in: too little spring is more dangerous than too much. If you gap the parts, they will break.


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Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: hemi-itis] #2700368
09/24/19 08:55 AM
09/24/19 08:55 AM
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flint michigan
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Dwayne and Todd and friends. Dwayne spec'd the cam, so I feel confident Todd will get me on the right track with this spring ordeal. Incompetence in many shops and businesses around here is over the top. Doesn't matter what kind of business it is, some people just don't give a sh!t no more and its getting worse.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: polyspheric] #2700371
09/24/19 09:02 AM
09/24/19 09:02 AM
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flint michigan
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Yes, I have a friend that feels I should run more spring pressure. Not that it matters, but he is a Hemi guy, Jim Keys wrench who maintains Jims 68 Hemi cuda super stock car. He has his own factory stock car he runs as well. He runs much more spring pressure on his SFT cams and they live. I just do not want to flatten a cam in this engine.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700729
09/25/19 10:39 AM
09/25/19 10:39 AM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Dwayne and Todd and friends. Dwayne spec'd the cam, so I feel confident Todd will get me on the right track with this spring ordeal. Incompetence in many shops and businesses around here is over the top. Doesn't matter what kind of business it is, some people just don't give a sh!t no more and its getting worse.

You have who you need and one phone call gets them delivered to your door!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

New best 60ft,, 1.42,1/8, 6.0 @117,, 9.38 @146.75 with 6 lbs boost @3700 lbs
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700733
09/25/19 10:53 AM
09/25/19 10:53 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Yes, I have a friend that feels I should run more spring pressure. Not that it matters, but he is a Hemi guy, Jim Keys wrench who maintains Jims 68 Hemi cuda super stock car. He has his own factory stock car he runs as well. He runs much more spring pressure on his SFT cams and they live. I just do not want to flatten a cam in this engine.


Does he have a good quality spring tester?

It’s really quite simple.
There is either a valvetrain control problem...... or there isn’t.

If there is, you need more spring load, or a different spring altogether....... or lower the engines operating range so you’re not running the motor in the range where the loss of control is occurring.
If there isn’t a control problem, you have other issues(or the combo just doesn’t work that well).

Obviously, the best way to determine exactly what’s going on is to dyno the motor.
That answers (at least) two questions.
It will show whether or not there is a valvetrain control issue that’s keeping the motor from realizing it’s potential...... and whether or not it makes enough power to achieve the desired goal as is....... or if more power is needed to get there.

I’ve tested many motors........ after the owners had spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get their car to run a number that the motor didn’t make enough power to achieve.
In most of those cases........ the car was going as quick as it “should”.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700800
09/25/19 02:46 PM
09/25/19 02:46 PM
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Sometimes a dyno run will show a narrow band of small spikes at an RPM where nothing should be happening. That's what VT harmonics or weak springs will do.
This also happens with pushrod flex, IDK how to distinguish between them. The usual rule is "If you don't have the biggest pushrods that fit, get them".


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Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: polyspheric] #2700921
09/25/19 08:22 PM
09/25/19 08:22 PM
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flint michigan
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I put .116" wall pushrods in it. When I ordered them from Manton the gentleman told me everything flexes no matter how big or thick they are. You just want to keep the flex within reasonable control.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: fast68plymouth] #2700922
09/25/19 08:26 PM
09/25/19 08:26 PM
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flint michigan
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Dwayne, my thinking is, you know the cam and Todd knows the springs. So I figure I have the best two guys on this possible problem. As soon as the weather turns here, I will box up 4 springs and send them to Todd for inspection.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2700931
09/25/19 08:42 PM
09/25/19 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Dwayne, my thinking is, you know the cam and Todd knows the springs. So I figure I have the best two guys on this possible problem. As soon as the weather turns here, I will box up 4 springs and send them to Todd for inspection.
DON,T do just four, send them all up
You know Murphy loves messing with us hot rodders and drag racer, don't you work
One bad spark plug wire can drive you CRAZY shock whiney shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: Cab_Burge] #2700933
09/25/19 08:48 PM
09/25/19 08:48 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Send 'em all. Dwayne checked a set of mine after a problematic dyno session years ago and found a number of the intake springs had lost a lot of pressure during the tests.

Do you know the advertised specs for your springs?

Last edited by BradH; 09/25/19 08:50 PM.
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: BradH] #2701075
09/26/19 10:53 AM
09/26/19 10:53 AM
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flint michigan
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No, I can only tell you the pressures as they are set up. Dwayne suggested only checking 4 springs, so I figure 2 pistons at TDC would make it easy to do. To pull all springs the heads need to come off.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: mopar dave] #2701131
09/26/19 01:35 PM
09/26/19 01:35 PM
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I've seen guys remove all 16 springs on the motor by using clothe pins or additional valve seals on them up scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: Cab_Burge] #2701156
09/26/19 02:59 PM
09/26/19 02:59 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I've seen guys remove all 16 springs on the motor by using clothe pins or additional valve seals on them up scope

Buy a set of 16 of the soft checking springs and simply swap the real springs out for the checking springs while they're off getting tested. Be aware you need to shop around a bit cuz some of the parts vendors ask as much for 2 springs as others might for a set of 8.

Or, if Dwayne suggested only needing to send four, pick 2 intakes & 2 exhausts (which I suspect was your plan) to be able to see if there's a pattern in load degradation between the two sides.

So, what pressures & heights are (were?) the springs set up for?

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: BradH] #2701237
09/26/19 08:58 PM
09/26/19 08:58 PM
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flint michigan
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Install height per Todd are 1.930 with 145# on the seat and 410# open. Coil binds at 1.200.

Re: Valve spring pressures and testing [Re: BradH] #2701455
09/27/19 04:13 PM
09/27/19 04:13 PM
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flint michigan
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I have been really thinking about this valve spring thing and not enough compression for the combo issue. I'm thinking it may be better to pull the heads and have all the springs checked. While they are off I will get them shaved .045" off and install new thinner Cometics(.045)/4.410 gaskets. This should bump the compression in a more desirable area for the heads and the cam. I have plenty of v to head clearance and would put me in the 12.5:1 area. No more 100% pump gas, but that's fine as I can't stand the smell out the pipes anyway. Race fuel smells much better. If the springs are bad I can replace with a known brand like Pac for instance. I may not need to pull the convertor and have it loosened. I think its worth a try.

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