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Help---Mystery problem !! #2698844
09/19/19 12:57 AM
09/19/19 12:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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493_DART  Offline OP
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Long story here...........I hope someone can throw me some ideas ?

Right now -----My dart----fresh motor . I have no spark from the coil . Months ago i fired up the car with this motor , and the timing was WAY off . It sounded crisp but wouldnt idle. This is just firing it up --so I had a buddy help fire it back up and the timing light said 60 deg btc ! So i backed it down to 30 and it wouldnt even start at normal timing...just sputter. Seemed normal when the timing light said 60btc....?

I recently looked at everything--looked at cam lobes , rockers , lash , cleaned the carb , timing chain+ gears .....Full on Leak down test----.even tried a new UNILITE that burned up in a couple minutes....a new coil , and a new MP ecu .

Now... Lets back up .......before i fired up the fresh motor last winter , i had a mishap. My buddy handed me the battery to put in the trunk , and i didnt have the light in the trunk.........i said ---Are you sure the Positive is to the rear? he said Yes................nope..... my dumass hooked it up.....backwards... we turned car on and had nice smoke by the engine....it burned a fusible link. Im still kicking myself for that.

SO----my buddy bought me a new chrome MP ecu.....I had the battery tested at Oreilly--tests perfect.. Nothing else looks hurt / burnt .

so tonight..i went and tried again--no spark and the ECU transistor gets REAL hot !! I had another ecu i plugged in---same thing--transistor gets super hot . I have 11.8v at both sides of the ballast...and both sides of the coil with ign ON . This is a MP distributor .

Nothing as far as wiring has changed on the car during this fiasco....

Im lost here............do i have 2 bad ECU boxes ? ive swapped coils..........the car ran weirdly with the new Unilite too...like the ignition is wayy screwed up . But it did RUN...........now..no spark ..


Yes i would love to scrap it all and put a switch panel in and a Msd setup---but no $$$$ to do that. Id like to find whats wrong with this setup because its worked great since 2008 !!

Last edited by 493_DART; 09/19/19 12:59 AM.
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2698851
09/19/19 02:26 AM
09/19/19 02:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 132
AZ
squirrel Offline
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squirrel  Offline
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AZ
Did you test the pickup coil in the original distributor?

How did you connect the Unilite? It does not require the Mopar ignition amplifier box (the thing you call the ECU?), it just gets power, ground, and has an output to the coil. If you connected it as you would a Mopar distributor, yeah, it could burn up.

The alternator might not have liked getting reverse polarity, either.

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2698943
09/19/19 11:32 AM
09/19/19 11:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 35,663
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
I would set the damperner at 15 BTDC on #1 compression (or your known/preferred initial #) then set the dist so the magnet is dead even with the tooth & the #1 plug wire is above or near above the rotor. But first pull the yellow (ign) wire off of the starter relay to disable the starter & pull the #1 plug wire out of the dist cap & hold it 1/4 from a ground & seperate the dist zigzag pickup connector & drag the male terminal on the body half of the connector across the intake surface to make/break ground & see if the coil wire sparks to ground with the key "on" & with a helper holding it to "crank". this takes the dist out of the picture. Holler back EDIT what Squirrel said, confirm you have the right stuff in there

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/19/19 11:34 AM.

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Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: RapidRobert] #2698954
09/19/19 12:00 PM
09/19/19 12:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,416
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
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PA.
Screw a top dead center stop in cylinder number one and carefully check top dead center to make sure your damper didn't spin to double-check your timing issue. Lots of out of Country dampers are spinning.


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Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: pittsburghracer] #2698955
09/19/19 12:07 PM
09/19/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,781
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Screw a top dead center stop in cylinder number one and carefully check top dead center to make sure your damper didn't spin to double-check your timing issue. Lots of out of Country dampers are spinning.

Yep .


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: pittsburghracer] #2698993
09/19/19 02:45 PM
09/19/19 02:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Screw a top dead center stop in cylinder number one and carefully check top dead center to make sure your damper didn't spin to double-check your timing issue. Lots of out of Country dampers are spinning.


the damper isnt going to make my coil Not spark...im thinking its the coil and/ or the ecu............I can double check the dist pickup but i think i did and it was giving a pulse ...........again ive swapped both BUT , i dont know if the replacements were any good to begin with !

yes i had the Unilite wired correct

I think the clue here is nothing changed with wiring....it ran great until the battery incident .....i have no spark out of the coil , and the ecu Transistor is getting super hot . I have a Kill/ Run switch--its working ..and i have a starter button...its working . 11.8vdc to coil pos/ neg and same at ballast terminals

if my timing is off....im sure would still have spark out of the coil ...weather its 40 deg btc or 0 btdc

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2698998
09/19/19 03:18 PM
09/19/19 03:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,963
Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Washington
Originally Posted by 493_DART
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Screw a top dead center stop in cylinder number one and carefully check top dead center to make sure your damper didn't spin to double-check your timing issue. Lots of out of Country dampers are spinning.


the damper isnt going to make my coil Not spark...im thinking its the coil and/ or the ecu............I can double check the dist pickup but i think i did and it was giving a pulse ...........again ive swapped both BUT , i dont know if the replacements were any good to begin with !

yes i had the Unilite wired correct

I think the clue here is nothing changed with wiring....it ran great until the battery incident .....i have no spark out of the coil , and the ecu Transistor is getting super hot . I have a Kill/ Run switch--its working ..and i have a starter button...its working . 11.8vdc to coil pos/ neg and same at ballast terminals

if my timing is off....im sure would still have spark out of the coil ...weather its 40 deg btc or 0 btdc


If you killed the Unilite, that's a sign there's an issue somewhere.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: madscientist] #2699003
09/19/19 03:35 PM
09/19/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,293
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Hemi_Joel  Offline
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Minnesota
Verify that the distributor is turning when the engine cranks. The distributor gear pin could be sheared. It can still turn some on friction.

Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 09/19/19 03:39 PM.

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Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2699091
09/19/19 08:42 PM
09/19/19 08:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,642
Ontario,Canada
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firefighter3931 Offline
top fuel
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Ontario,Canada
Try reversing the pickup wires. I had a similar problem in the past nd the car wouldn't even fire until I reversed the pickup wires.


Ron

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: firefighter3931] #2699649
09/21/19 09:52 PM
09/21/19 09:52 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
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7e5dartsport Offline
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montreal, quebec,canada
if you have a 4pin ballast resistor, test its resistance. one side should be 5 ohms, the other 0.5 ohms. if you have a 2pin resistor, it should be from 0.25 to 0.5 ohms. all these tests with the connectors at the resistor disconnected for testing.


fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 7e5dartsport] #2699948
09/22/19 08:29 PM
09/22/19 08:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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493_DART  Offline OP
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its good , 0.8 ohms

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2707833
10/17/19 08:21 PM
10/17/19 08:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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493_DART  Offline OP
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Update----

still have 12v everywhere it should

swapped in a new ECU ..........no spark ....grounded ecu case to battery neg direct ........no spark

brand new coil ........no spark , checked and swapped coil output cable .

pulled dist out to check pickup ---works fine .

swapped ballasts--both test good

I give up mad mad mad


going with new ignition..maybe a ready to run setup .

Last edited by 493_DART; 10/17/19 08:22 PM.
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2707834
10/17/19 08:25 PM
10/17/19 08:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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493_DART  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Verify that the distributor is turning when the engine cranks. The distributor gear pin could be sheared. It can still turn some on friction.



verified .

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: firefighter3931] #2707835
10/17/19 08:26 PM
10/17/19 08:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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Worst Weather USA
Originally Posted by firefighter3931
Try reversing the pickup wires. I had a similar problem in the past nd the car wouldn't even fire until I reversed the pickup wires.


Ron


the plug and dist. wiring havent changed at all since it ran .

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2707843
10/17/19 08:52 PM
10/17/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 34,915
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by 493_DART
Originally Posted by firefighter3931
Try reversing the pickup wires. I had a similar problem in the past nd the car wouldn't even fire until I reversed the pickup wires.


Ron


the plug and dist. wiring havent changed at all since it ran .

Something has changed or it would still run, correct work
I would be checking the grounds with a ohm meter between the ECU, coil resistor and the distributor housing and block scope twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: Cab_Burge] #2707873
10/17/19 09:59 PM
10/17/19 09:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,527
Byron, NY
W.I.N. racing Offline
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Byron, NY
Just a shot in the dark...about 100yrs ago I had a 67 Barracuda w/440... anyway one nite I went to a friends house and when I tried to leave no start /spark... every thing looked good just no spark. then I found one of the wires from the MSD-6C had gotten trapped under the Valve cover. Once I found and resolved the issue (plus learned another lesson about MSD's) it started right up...just a thought twocents


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Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: W.I.N. racing] #2707874
10/17/19 10:02 PM
10/17/19 10:02 PM
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South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkRT Offline
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Originally Posted by W.I.N. racing
Just a shot in the dark...about 100yrs ago I had a 67 Barracuda w/440... anyway one nite I went to a friends house and when I tried to leave no start /spark... every thing looked good just no spark. then I found one of the wires from the MSD-6C had gotten trapped under the Valve cover. Once I found and resolved the issue (plus learned another lesson about MSD's) it started right up...just a thought twocents

I had a no spark issue about 12 years ago. Changed everything. Come to find out that one of the wires coming from the MSD 6AL box popped out a tad bit from the terminal. Pushed it back in and it started.

MSD6AL.jpg

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Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: Cab_Burge] #2708108
10/18/19 02:25 PM
10/18/19 02:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,359
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline OP
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493_DART  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by 493_DART
Originally Posted by firefighter3931
Try reversing the pickup wires. I had a similar problem in the past nd the car wouldn't even fire until I reversed the pickup wires.


Ron


the plug and dist. wiring havent changed at all since it ran .

Something has changed or it would still run, correct work
I would be checking the grounds with a ohm meter between the ECU, coil resistor and the distributor housing and block scope twocents


ill go over grounds with the meter 1 more time...i know the block was good--and i had a direct ground from Batt to Ecu...

ill check wiring again but i had 12v everywhere it should be-----

Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: 493_DART] #2708181
10/18/19 07:45 PM
10/18/19 07:45 PM
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Posts: 34,915
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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There is no magic usually in our old cars, you can fix this up
The hard part is figuring out exactly what is causing the system failure whiney
I've heard of more than one professional drag racing teams swapping out all the electrical parts and wires on a race car at the track between Friday night and Saturday along with doing the same thing on Saturday evening wrench shruggy
Your issues make me think it has a corrosion or what we use to called a swinging open issue on a connection or terminal end, ends work scope Especially when cranking the engine over putting a bigger drain on the electrical system work Good luck thumbs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help---Mystery problem !! [Re: Cab_Burge] #2708188
10/18/19 08:13 PM
10/18/19 08:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 414
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog Offline
mopar
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Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
You got a broken wire some place in the system.


Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
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