I don't want to (re)read through everything you've posted, but have a few questions:

1. What about your current converter do you think needs to be changed? If it flashes to 5K+ and only has 6% slippage, it sounds better than my Dynamic 9.5" with a 4500-flash and 8% slippage. And the fact that two well-respected converter companies suggested you not mess w/ the converter ought to carry some weight, IMO.

2. Have you considered changing to a clutch-type fan setup since the flex-flan has obviously cost you some significant HP? It won't free up as much as an all-electric fan setup, but it'll get some of what you lost back. The "old reliable" MP viscous fan kit works well.

3. I don't know what else you've done for testing carb jetting, but the AFRs in the high 13s you mentioned on mostly 93E10 fuel sound really lean to me. Have you tried bigger jets to see if the car slows down with an AFR closer to say 13.0? Oh, any chance your fuel system can't supply enough fuel on the top end?

4. What are you running for valve springs, retainers, pushrods, etc., and how do you have the springs set up given the lift you have? I'm wondering if you may be running into valve train instability at higher RPM...

5. Are you having any spinning issues off the line? Is the car launching hard & straight?

6. Has any of your tuning involved changing accel pump squirter sizes and/or pump cams, in addition to changing launch RPMs? Are you fighting any hesitation, etc.?


My $.02 (and sh!t-can it if you want) is that you haven't spent enough time figuring out the current combination of hard parts to know why the car isn't running where "everyone" seems to expect it should.

Part of why I mention this is because your earlier time slips from the new BB vs your old stroker SB showed the BB combination was better everywhere but the last 660'. It had a better 60, it was quicker & faster in the 1/8th, but it gave it all back on the last half of the track. That makes no sense to me, unless there's an issue that's choking it on the big end.

And now I'll go back under my rock and work on my own junk.

Thanks for replying Brad. When you talk to a vert shop and mention street, its the end for getting a good 60footing vert. They get stuck on that street thing. Lenny didn't recommend loosening, but said if I wanted he would loosen it a bit. It is going back to him. You need a 8" vert for what your doing. ATI says N/A engines need 8" convertors. Big power, big convertor. Power adder cars need 9, 9.5 or even 10" for big turbo engines making huge power.
I don't think I have the room for the clutch fan. I have another idea for the electric fan as im looking for higher output fans than the spals 990cfm rating and I have an idea how to incorporate a T stat in the housing.
First time out I was running good AFR's thru the traps with 12.3, 12.5, 12.7 and 13.2 on fastest pass when the temp dropped. I tried HS air bleed change which leaned things too far, .028 to a .030.
Associate valve springs. I'm told by Todd at Compititionwedgeengines they are good quality springs and they produce some of the other big name springs out there. They are set up at 1.930 with 145# on seat and 410# open pressures. I spoke with Dwayne the other day, he did suggest pulling a couple and have them tested to be sure.
No spinning. Car hooks great , goes straight without any hesitation and makes you think your breaking all the records til you get to the ticket booth.
I just richened the rear jets 2 sizes since on straight 93 and no 110 in the mix it runs a tad leaner. I just bought 2 cans of unleaded 98 octane oxygenated to try.
Not sure what that's about either with the loss at the end of the track. When I foot brake I have to hold the brake real hard to keep the car from moving. The vert feels tighter than when it was behind the SB, so its getting a loosening. I may try a different intake and I told Dwayne I wouldn't switch his cam out, I may down the road if nothing else works. This will be my winter project and try again in the spring.

I look forward to seeing how everything progresses for you. Also expecting to have similar W T H? moments with my junk given so much will have changed since the last time it was at the track...

Your combo is a 440, 451? Can't remember. What intake and cam you using with that combo?

RB 452 4.380 x 3.75
Standard port Victors
Trick Flow intake with 4150 carb
266 at .050, .650, 108 solid roller

its probably best you don't tell the converter people about the street part. I believe a good track converter is better on the street than a street converter is on the track. Run a cooler and drive smart and you won't have any issues.

Ok, and that combo makes 700hp? If so, that's a great combo. What do you think of the trick flow intake? Not sure, but i'm thinking maybe these heads don't like big intakes?

Long story short, my engine made 680+ HP w/o a properly sized or tuned carb. Dwayne's old-style Holley "950" HP (1.38+ venturi x 1.75 throttle) w/ a decent tune made as much power as my 1.58 v annular 4150 that was not even close to "right" w/ AFRs in the high 13s. There's likely 10+ HP in getting the bigger carb dialed in.

All I know about the MW Victors is what I've seen on da' net. My OPINION is that most of the ported MW versions I've seen advertised have too big a runner volume for the CFM claimed, which would hurt velocity big time. "Lazy" ports on a compression-limited / converter-limited / whatever-limited street-strip car aren't a great match 'cuz you're not operating in the higher & narrower RPM range where the lack of velocity isn't so much of an issue.

The TF RB intake is very nice as cast. Andy's had good results with the low-deck version, too. I have no idea how you'd get one to work w/ a MW-sized head, though.

I know it's really easy to spend someone else's $$$, but... consider calling Wilson Manifolds and asking them about "down sizing" your Indy MW intake to improve velocity as a Band-Aid to the heads having too-large runner volumes. Just a thought...

683.7hp@6800 with std port heads and an ootb manifold........ and a less than optimal small venturi carb that tends to richen up slightly at the top end.

A more optimized, slightly bigger carb....... along with some oxygenated fuel....... probably coulda squeaked a 7xx out of it.

I can ask Wilson's to see what could be done, but that is my thinking. Lazy ports, so thought I would just bolt that TF up right out of the box. I know someone that bolted up a standard port intake to a 440-1 and it worked pretty good.

curious as to what your goals are? your car seems to be running great and is very streetable as is. what's the payback for a quicker Et vs more $$$ spent?

The goal is low 10's. It does run good on the street and down track , but in my opinion something is not right and I will find and fix it. Expense doesn't really matter at time point. This car has forever been an on going project since I bought it in 96'. During my search for a smaller intake for this combo I came across an Indy old school type tunnel ram for lo decks. Really would like to have that on this combo with two 4's, but that just may make things worse at this point. Well, since the victor mw heads have lazy ports how should i remedy this situation? Intake, cam, more compression?

In that case....... a 572 Hemi should easily solve the problem.

Expense to a point. I'm not a rich guy by any stretch. Hey, wait a minute, A hemi would be real nice at the track and the car shows.

You think you have a headache now just wait until you get a hemi. Lol

That sounds like advise coming from someone that knows. I'll take that as a caution. I actually thought of building up my other lo deck into a 470 Hemi with the conversion heads.

You guys calling the 426 hemi motors don't know why they are called Hemiroid motors should know that any motor modified for racing in 6 months going from wedge heads to hemi heads is not a good deal
I really wish some one would design and make a true hemi motor from scratch that could be used for racing or street use also
I look at the BAE -8 Hemi motors and really hope they will do that some day with a water jacketed motor

I have the up date pipemax 4.5. I'm am able to calculate csa port velocity. Its very low according to this program and suggest a cam in the 261/268*-.650/.600" with 42* of over lap. Sounds aweful small, but who knows.
Gonna call hughes tomorrow and get there opinion.

Proof of concept on changing cams? Throw this one in there: http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...mxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30282

It'll help... or it won't.

Personally...... I’d keep the converter “as is” and buy another. You’re already pleased with its street performance and for being tight the 60 might not be off too far. Once you pay for shipping + adjust if you want to back it’ll cost you twice. Too bad you’re not in my neighborhood. I had my 727 dialed in pretty good, but switched to 904 last year. I have 2 727 8” Ultimate’s sitting here one 5800, the other 6200 behind my W8 that’d we could throw in