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How did my plugs get this ugly -Now with head removed #2693267
08/31/19 08:01 PM
08/31/19 08:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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furious70  Offline OP
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EFI turbo charged 383.

EFI'ed since 2009 and the plugs have all 8 always been very similar, dry, tan (I didn't take any photos of the good ones, I should have)

turbocharged in 2012.

I've had the plugs out various times over the last decade and the plugs have always looked good.

This year the idle quality and general performance has been lackluster after largely sitting around in our heated shop the prior 2 years since I had my Charger out here.

Took the plugs out today and found 1 really oily wet one and 3 with hard deposits on them - is it coked up oil or what?

What would cause a change this drastic in 500-1000 miles of street fun?

sp2.jpgsp1.jpgs3.jpg
Last edited by furious70; 09/08/19 09:38 PM.

70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693283
08/31/19 09:35 PM
08/31/19 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,899
Milwaukee WI
T
TRENDZ Offline
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TRENDZ  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,899
Milwaukee WI
Weren’t you having blow-by problems last year?
Id say you have a ring issue. It was you with the valley pan leak correct?


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693285
08/31/19 09:41 PM
08/31/19 09:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 124
AZ
squirrel Offline
member
squirrel  Offline
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AZ
which cylinders are acting up?

Did the valve stem seals go away?

Have you kept fresh fuel in it?

Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: squirrel] #2693290
08/31/19 09:54 PM
08/31/19 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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furious70  Offline OP
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no blow by that I've noticed, but the valley pan was leaking oil and audible vacuum leak that I did fix over the winter with a new pan.

Heads don't have that many miles on them so I'd hope the seals are ok. It's had plenty of fuel run through it when I've had it out here, longest time it ever sat was over winters like it always has with stabil in the tank.

1 & 2 were clean. 8 was pretty good. 4 was the worst, 3, 5, 6, 7 were all about the same.
4 is the one pictured with the huge deposit on it.

It has an rpm perf manifold converted for EFI. Like I said, prior to this the plugs have all looked incredibly equal so distribution with that intake converted seemed good.

I had a spare set of plugs so I threw them in because I was planning on driving it today but some rain came up on the radar. Not surprising, but idling in the driveway with new plugs it seemed happier drumhit

Next step a compression test on those bad holes?

Been looking for an excuse to put a 5.7/nag1 in it whistling

Last edited by furious70; 08/31/19 09:55 PM.

70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: squirrel] #2693292
08/31/19 10:00 PM
08/31/19 10:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,343
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
master
Jeremiah  Offline
master

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Posts: 8,343
Rogue River, OR
Time for a leak down, or at very least compression check + pull a rocker cover.


beats walking!
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693294
08/31/19 10:02 PM
08/31/19 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,066
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,066
Great Neck,LI,new york
Compession and leakdown are in order!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

New best 60ft,, 1.42,1/8, 6.0 @117,, 9.38 @146.75 with 6 lbs boost @3700 lbs
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693335
09/01/19 03:56 AM
09/01/19 03:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,899
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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TRENDZ  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,899
Milwaukee WI
Where was the oil leak source? Port opening, front/ rear rail or cracked pan?
I would say either you have a ring issue, or the valley pan isn’t sealed very well at that port. The fact that you had an audible vacuum leak previous to replacing the pan would have me sending a camera down that port looking for an oil trail, or poor pan/ port alignment.
Are you running a pan only, or gasket/pan layers?


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: TRENDZ] #2693341
09/01/19 06:30 AM
09/01/19 06:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,401
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Bad340fish  Offline
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Tulsa OK
Might be time to get your injectors flowed and cleaned?


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Bad340fish] #2693342
09/01/19 06:44 AM
09/01/19 06:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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furious70  Offline OP
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I had oil collecting on the pan and on the back of the block by the sender, both of which stopped with the r&r on the pan. Using carb cleaner to test I had leaks on the outside of 3&5 for sure. I didn't have a way to shoot carb cleaner in underneath at the ports, but I had assumed that 3&5 were probably leaking on the underside as well then. The passenger side bank seemed ok as far as vacuum leaks, but had the worst plugs.

Only the pan with RTV, it was too thick with the gaskets, I could not get it to go together.

For the general rough idle someone else suggested injector service (but then I found the plugs). I luckily have a new set of these ancient 37# delphi's I'm using so I could throw some in, but what about dirty injectors would contribute to this?

Last edited by furious70; 09/01/19 06:46 AM.

70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693344
09/01/19 06:58 AM
09/01/19 06:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,401
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
master
Bad340fish  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,401
Tulsa OK
dribbling fuel or leaking, poor spray pattern? I plan on making an injector service part of my yearly tune up but I have yet to actually follow through with that lol.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Bad340fish] #2693353
09/01/19 07:22 AM
09/01/19 07:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,261
nielsville, minn.
Q
quickd100 Offline
master
quickd100  Offline
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Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,261
nielsville, minn.
Without knowing anything about your motor I would guess you met Mr. Detonation. He not a nice man, very cruel and vindictive. He especially hates rings and pistons. If you catch him in a bad mood he's liable to smash ringlands and pistons.

Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: quickd100] #2693360
09/01/19 07:49 AM
09/01/19 07:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,568
...to Paradise from ParaICE !
Doc Fiberglass Offline
Whack! Whack! Whack!
Doc Fiberglass  Offline
Whack! Whack! Whack!

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,568
...to Paradise from ParaICE !
There are LOTS MORE GUYS HERE that are more engine Xperts than me .... but if the plugs look like that I’d hate to see what the pistons and cyl head chambers look like eek

My vote is the pull the heads off or the engine completely out !


...... roger that .., whackin’ the whack JOBS is my mission ...a noble Crusader !
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693427
09/01/19 11:03 AM
09/01/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 319
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
enthusiast
jwb123  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 319
Missouri
Classic oil burning cylinder in your photos, First thing I would do is leak the cylinders with a leak tester, that will tell you if you torched a piston. I had a blown engine, blow the head gasket into the lifter valley one time and man did it ever smoke. Also, most turbo's have pressure fed bearings, if the seals go bad in the turbo you will suck oil that way as well. If the leak test come up good, the turbo is where I would go. Lots of diesel trucks with turbos, start sucking oil threw the bearings when the seals fail. One way the seals fail is shutting off the engine while the bearings are still hot from a hard pull, the oil will coke on the shaft and take out the seals.

Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693453
09/01/19 01:52 PM
09/01/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,233
Pa
Hot 340 Offline
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Hot 340  Offline
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Pa
Seals in the turbo were my first thought. Thats where Id look.

Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Hot 340] #2693524
09/01/19 08:34 PM
09/01/19 08:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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furious70  Offline OP
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Turbo seals would be a major bummer since they are nice Precision units with not very many miles on them. No oil in the intake tract from the turbos to the throttle body either, though I'll keep an eye on that.

Borrowed a borescope and comp tester from Autozone

2,4,6 all had about 120psi, could not get the hose onto 8 without taking my downpipe off. Did not have time to get to the dr's side, but the pass side had the worst plugs. #2 was 122psi and #6 was 118psi, within the range of error of the tool I was using and that was the worst plug and best plug on that bank.

borescope showed lots of build up, looked like a sticky tar pit, and maybe some cratering from detonation, you guys tell me. Photo also of the edge of a piston. 4 and 6 had this nasty looking edge condition on part of them and then the other side was cleaner.

boreNum2.jpgbore1.jpgbore2.jpg

70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693531
09/01/19 08:57 PM
09/01/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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furious70  Offline OP
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Also, I couldn't get a 360* view with the borescope but in each of the cylinders I was able to still see cross hatch and did not see any vertical scarring in the areas I was able to see.


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: furious70] #2693622
09/02/19 11:08 AM
09/02/19 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33,594
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 33,594
Bend,OR USA
Sorry to see that detonation on those pistons, time to pull them out and see if the ring lands are collapsed and how bad the piston tops in the ring lands are hurt and under them are damaged scope
You found the outer limits of making power on your parts the hard way whiney shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2693640
09/02/19 11:55 AM
09/02/19 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,261
nielsville, minn.
Q
quickd100 Offline
master
quickd100  Offline
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Q

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Posts: 6,261
nielsville, minn.
You'd be surprised how much hp and torque stock parts can handle but the tune-up has to be spot on. My little 318 made 40-50 Dyno pulls at up to 22 lbs. of boost and survived no worst for wear. All pulls were done with C-14 and A/F ratios were closely monitored. But it only takes one full Throttle blast going Lean or insufficient octane and say by-bye to the ringlands and rings. Don't ask me how I know.

Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2693669
09/02/19 02:32 PM
09/02/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,207
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

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Posts: 1,207
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Sorry to see that detonation on those pistons, time to pull them out and see if the ring lands are collapsed and how bad the piston tops in the ring lands are hurt and under them are damaged scope
You found the outer limits of making power on your parts the hard way whiney shruggy


iagree looks like ring lands and/or rings are down


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: How did my plugs get this ugly in relatively few miles? [Re: Roughbird72] #2693689
09/02/19 04:01 PM
09/02/19 04:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,735
IL
furious70 Offline OP
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I don't view it as the hard way. It's a random cast piston 383 with unknown miles on it and of questionable integrity. I got 7 years of fooling around with my first scratch built turbo kit and efi with it. I think it had a really good run actually.

I will admit that with the efi, a conservative tune for fuel and timing, always 93 octane, and water injection once I went past 5psi, I did not expect to detonate it. I should have been doing routine plug reading in order to more closely isolate when it happened however.

And I learned that I need to make sure a turbo kit has room to get a compression tester in each bore without having to take stuff apart if I can. up


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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