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Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines #2689661
08/20/19 09:15 AM
08/20/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR Offline OP
top fuel
RMCHRGR  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
I posted this on another forum and the only replies I got were to call Borgeson so I'll try it here with a few edits.

I'm installing a Borgeson steering box into my '68 Coronet but am struggling to find clear info on what particular pump is needed/optimal with this unit. I've gone down a few rabbit holes about pressures etc. which is more involved than I want to get - I basically want to know what works. I'm not sure what's on my car now (Federal, Thompson or otherwise) but it's not a ham can reservoir Saginaw which everyone seems to be using.

One thing I'm not sure about is why the Saginaw is the go-to pump choice. Can anyone give me a specific reason not to use my existing (non-Saginaw) pump and lines?

I'm not concerned with achieving an OE appearance as long whatever I use bolts in place of the old one because I do in fact, have a well-seasoned Saginaw pump, pulley and brackets still mounted to the 400 in my D100. Could I swap the whole nine to my Coronet and be ready to rumble or would I be compromising/limiting the steering gear in some way? If the recommendation is to get a new pump, I can pirate the pulley and brackets from the 400.

Bergman Auto Craft sells the Saginaw type pump for $165 that's "optimized" for the Borgeson box though it's a little unclear what that means. Obviously I could just call up Peter and order the pump and I may do that but, if there's a Rock Auto/parts store 'stock' replacement Saginaw pump that will provide adequate pressure for the application then I'd rather not spend more than I have to. If I go the re-man route, is there a specific application the pump should be sourced from?

And once I get the pump figured out, is there a specific pressure hose that is required other than your garden-variety-OE-replacement-b-body-with-Saginaw-pump?

Thanks for any input.

- Greg


'68 Coronet
'71 Duster
'76 D100
'17 Ram 1500
Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: RMCHRGR] #2689689
08/20/19 10:57 AM
08/20/19 10:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
USA, MI
MarkM Offline
Worthy
MarkM  Offline
Worthy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
USA, MI
I can't speak to the earlier pumps, not sure if the flow and pressure valving is the same. The Saginaw pumps came in everything across all sorts of makes and models. There are so many combinations of flow and pressure valving with different mounting clocks out there it's hard to tell exactly what you might have and if the pump comes from a parts store, God only knows. This is why it would probably be beneficial to get the pump from Bergman.

In the event you don't want to, this is route I took:

I first swapped the Borgeson box in when the car had a small block. Steering feel was dialed in perfectly. Then I swapped to a big block; which required a different Saginaw pump and I neglected to pull the valving out of the old pump before I got rid of it. Couldn't get the BB pump dialed in at all and it didn't matter how many shims I used on the pressure valve. Turned out the orifice in the flow valve was too big. Turn One offers a flow reducer that I paired up with with a -6AN adapter, PTFE line and a 16MM inverted flare to -6AN adapter for the steering box.

With now shims in place and just using the flow reducer I'm happy with the steering now, although it is a bit tough to turn when at a stop, but the at speed feel is right where I want it.

The box itself calls for 2.0 - 2.5 GPH flow with 1100 - 1200 PSI optimal pressure.

Honestly though, with the money I have tied up in the above solution, you'd be better off just getting a pump matched to the box.

20190526_192113.jpg20190523_202506.jpg
Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: MarkM] #2689701
08/20/19 11:22 AM
08/20/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR Offline OP
top fuel
RMCHRGR  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
Originally Posted by MarkM
this is route I took:

Honestly though, with the money I have tied up in the above solution, you'd be better off just getting a pump matched to the box.


Thanks for the detailed reply, just what I was looking for.

Looks like there is some validity to the pressure concern but it's hard to sift through all the information to find the exact scenario that will work best for your particular application. Guess that's why people say to call this company or that company. shruggy

I'm just stubborn and want to know the whys before I blindly give someone money.


'68 Coronet
'71 Duster
'76 D100
'17 Ram 1500
Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: RMCHRGR] #2689702
08/20/19 11:25 AM
08/20/19 11:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Mequon, WI
G
gzig5 Offline
member
gzig5  Offline
member
G

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Mequon, WI
I think Ma Mopar used more Saginaw boxes and that's why you see them more. I have a Federal in mine but I seem to be in the minority. The Saginaw also seems to be easier to modify the pressure output with simple shims. I've not seen an equivalent method for the Federal.

You've got a pile of money invested in the Borgeson box, what's an extra $100 for a pump that is already dialed in for it versus a generic parts store version that you'll probably have to hack into? Seems like you want a drop in solution and it's looking right at you. Take it.

Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: gzig5] #2689723
08/20/19 12:49 PM
08/20/19 12:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR Offline OP
top fuel
RMCHRGR  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,660
Spahn Ranch
Originally Posted by gzig5
I think Ma Mopar used more Saginaw boxes and that's why you see them more. I have a Federal in mine but I seem to be in the minority. The Saginaw also seems to be easier to modify the pressure output with simple shims. I've not seen an equivalent method for the Federal.

You've got a pile of money invested in the Borgeson box, what's an extra $100 for a pump that is already dialed in for it versus a generic parts store version that you'll probably have to hack into? Seems like you want a drop in solution and it's looking right at you. Take it.


Point taken!


'68 Coronet
'71 Duster
'76 D100
'17 Ram 1500
Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: RMCHRGR] #2689733
08/20/19 01:23 PM
08/20/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,099
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts Offline
super stock
JF_Moparts  Offline
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,099
Los Angeles, CA
Hey, do any of you Borgeson box users have the line pressure noise like I do? If so, have you found anything to reduce it?

Re: Borgeson st3eering box pump and lines [Re: JF_Moparts] #2693470
09/01/19 05:15 PM
09/01/19 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,445
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318 Offline
pro stock
goldduster318  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,445
Lake Orion, MI
I ran the same borgeson box with both a stock 1970 Federal pump and then later with a 1977 Aspen 318 Saginaw and there was not a noticeable difference in how it feels. I changed to the saginaw due to the hydroboost setup and being able to get fittings for AN lines for it.

I get no noise.


'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip

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