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Alternator Powermaster 8172 #2689224
08/18/19 10:21 PM
08/18/19 10:21 PM
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Martinsville, IN
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cdwmotorsports Offline OP
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So I have Andy’s motorplate and alternator bracket kit and an 8172 it seems to be struggling to keep up with my needs. My Demon has the dual fan setup on it, an electric water and fuel pump and an MSD 6AL. If this one isn’t big enough is there another alternator that is that will fit Andy’s bracket?


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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689374
08/19/19 01:01 PM
08/19/19 01:01 PM
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New York, USA
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That is only a 50 amp alternator according to specs. The 8182 is listed as the same size alt and is 75 amp. Only thing is it is listed as 1 wire but not jumper wire. You can go to this link and check out what they have:

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/race_alternators.html

Last edited by Chargerfan68; 08/19/19 01:03 PM.

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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689611
08/20/19 12:50 AM
08/20/19 12:50 AM
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Oregon
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You must have something set up wrong. Even a 50 amp alternator can keep up with that stuff on a drag car. If it is a street car then it should also be fine unless you are just sitting in traffic for long periods of time. The fans should shut off as soon as you are moving. If you are running the fans full blast while you're driving down the road then that is your problem. If you have the fans shut off while moving then you have a different issue, maybe a weak battery or poor wiring.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: AndyF] #2689627
08/20/19 06:54 AM
08/20/19 06:54 AM
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Wiring and battery are all brand new. I guess I need to determine if the 8172 needs a jumper wire or if its a true 1 wire.


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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689684
08/20/19 10:44 AM
08/20/19 10:44 AM
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Brand new doesn't mean it is done correctly. How are your fans wired? Are you running them all the time even when driving? If the fans aren't on then the current draw is well within the capacity of that alternator. Even if the fans are on all the time at the track the battery should have enough capacity to handle it.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: AndyF] #2689698
08/20/19 11:12 AM
08/20/19 11:12 AM
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Martinsville, IN
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The fans only cycle when the Dakota Digital box and the sending unit agree they need to come one, then it has the option of running itself on low or high as needed. The car is wired correctly. The alternator has one of Crackedback Rob's big wires from it. The alternator doesn't appear to be outputting more than 11.4 volts into the system.

Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 08/20/19 11:13 AM.

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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689719
08/20/19 12:33 PM
08/20/19 12:33 PM
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I know it's a odd question, but do you have the alternator case grounded? Sometimes a dedicated ground is needed beyond the chassis ground.


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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: JERICOGTX] #2689759
08/20/19 03:35 PM
08/20/19 03:35 PM
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Martinsville, IN
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
I know it's a odd question, but do you have the alternator case grounded? Sometimes a dedicated ground is needed beyond the chassis ground.


It is attached via an aluminum bracket to an aluminum engine plate bolted to a steel bracket that is welded to the chassis. My old alternator setup with elephant ears didn't have another ground, if it needing a separate ground wire is still believed to be a problem I have no issue adding one. Although it appears based on Powermaster literature that the 8172 needs an exciter wire or the IGN terminal on the engine sent to a keyed 12v source.

Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 08/20/19 03:36 PM.

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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689765
08/20/19 03:51 PM
08/20/19 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
The fans only cycle when the Dakota Digital box and the sending unit agree they need to come one, then it has the option of running itself on low or high as needed. The car is wired correctly. The alternator has one of Crackedback Rob's big wires from it. The alternator doesn't appear to be outputting more than 11.4 volts into the system.


You either have a bad alternator or it isn't wired correctly. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out either way. Take it to your local NAPA and they'll tell you if it is working. If it works on the NAPA test bench then you have the car wired wrong.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: AndyF] #2689769
08/20/19 04:50 PM
08/20/19 04:50 PM
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Martinsville, IN
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
The fans only cycle when the Dakota Digital box and the sending unit agree they need to come one, then it has the option of running itself on low or high as needed. The car is wired correctly. The alternator has one of Crackedback Rob's big wires from it. The alternator doesn't appear to be outputting more than 11.4 volts into the system.


You either have a bad alternator or it isn't wired correctly. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out either way. Take it to your local NAPA and they'll tell you if it is working. If it works on the NAPA test bench then you have the car wired wrong.


I'll take it in. So the info is out there the fuel pump, water pump and ignition as well as the fans are all on with the 11.4 volt measurement. Tested at the starter relay with a voltmeter.


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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689773
08/20/19 05:12 PM
08/20/19 05:12 PM
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Romeo MI
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Sounds like you just need the exciter wire hooked up
wave

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: AndyF] #2689780
08/20/19 05:43 PM
08/20/19 05:43 PM
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Martinsville, IN
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Originally Posted by AndyF
You must have something set up wrong. Even a 50 amp alternator can keep up with that stuff on a drag car. If it is a street car then it should also be fine unless you are just sitting in traffic for long periods of time. The fans should shut off as soon as you are moving. If you are running the fans full blast while you're driving down the road then that is your problem. If you have the fans shut off while moving then you have a different issue, maybe a weak battery or poor wiring.


Called PowerMaster they say this isn't enough alternator and they don't make a big enough one for what I'm running. shruggy


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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689836
08/20/19 08:03 PM
08/20/19 08:03 PM
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Oregon
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Turn off the fans and see what your voltage is.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2689906
08/21/19 04:41 AM
08/21/19 04:41 AM
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N/E, Michigan
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Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
Originally Posted by AndyF
You must have something set up wrong. Even a 50 amp alternator can keep up with that stuff on a drag car. If it is a street car then it should also be fine unless you are just sitting in traffic for long periods of time. The fans should shut off as soon as you are moving. If you are running the fans full blast while you're driving down the road then that is your problem. If you have the fans shut off while moving then you have a different issue, maybe a weak battery or poor wiring.


Called PowerMaster they say this isn't enough alternator and they don't make a big enough one for what I'm running. shruggy


Install a relay switch and go straight to the battery for the fans, Then your switch in the car for the electric fans are just an on/off switch.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: AndyF] #2689913
08/21/19 06:54 AM
08/21/19 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Turn off the fans and see what your voltage is.


X2. With engine running around 1,500 rpm, charging system voltage should be somewhere around 13.5 volts just feeding ignition, fuel pump, water pump. If it is still low, I would start digging deeper into wiring or possible no alternator output. If it only goes low when the fans are on, your wiring is too small or your alternator output is less than fan draw. Try it old school. While the engine is running, touch a screwdriver to the back alternator bearing. If it pulls down the screwdriver, your alternator windings are live. If it doesn't, alternator isn't turning on.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: RATTRAP] #2690002
08/21/19 12:19 PM
08/21/19 12:19 PM
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Martinsville, IN
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Originally Posted by RATTRAP
Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
Originally Posted by AndyF
You must have something set up wrong. Even a 50 amp alternator can keep up with that stuff on a drag car. If it is a street car then it should also be fine unless you are just sitting in traffic for long periods of time. The fans should shut off as soon as you are moving. If you are running the fans full blast while you're driving down the road then that is your problem. If you have the fans shut off while moving then you have a different issue, maybe a weak battery or poor wiring.


Called PowerMaster they say this isn't enough alternator and they don't make a big enough one for what I'm running. shruggy


Install a relay switch and go straight to the battery for the fans, Then your switch in the car for the electric fans are just an on/off switch.


Why would I want that?

I drive it on the street and the last thing I want is to forget to turn the fans on. It is wired the way it is because that's how I want it. I appreciate your suggestion but I'm not changing it.

I also don't believe that's going to solve the alternator output issue I'm having.

Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 08/21/19 12:20 PM.

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Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2690106
08/21/19 07:11 PM
08/21/19 07:11 PM
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You need to manually turn the fans off so you can debug your problem. Turn them off and drive the car and see what the voltage is. You should have 13.5 volts with the fans disconnected. If so then good. If not then you have a charging problem. Once you have that figured out hook up the fans and do the test again.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2690217
08/22/19 04:47 AM
08/22/19 04:47 AM
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N/E, Michigan
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Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
Originally Posted by RATTRAP
Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
Originally Posted by AndyF
You must have something set up wrong. Even a 50 amp alternator can keep up with that stuff on a drag car. If it is a street car then it should also be fine unless you are just sitting in traffic for long periods of time. The fans should shut off as soon as you are moving. If you are running the fans full blast while you're driving down the road then that is your problem. If you have the fans shut off while moving then you have a different issue, maybe a weak battery or poor wiring.


Called PowerMaster they say this isn't enough alternator and they don't make a big enough one for what I'm running. shruggy


Install a relay switch and go straight to the battery for the fans, Then your switch in the car for the electric fans are just an on/off switch.


Why would I want that?

I drive it on the street and the last thing I want is to forget to turn the fans on. It is wired the way it is because that's how I want it. I appreciate your suggestion but I'm not changing it.

I also don't believe that's going to solve the alternator output issue I'm having.


You can still have them come on with the ignition switch using a relay (wiring 101), The idea is to pull your power from the source not the alternator, using a relay is eliminating running high voltage past the firewall and having the shortest power source to the fans, Maybe a read on basic automotive wiring is in order.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: RATTRAP] #2690260
08/22/19 09:20 AM
08/22/19 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RATTRAP


You can still have them come on with the ignition switch using a relay (wiring 101), The idea is to pull your power from the source not the alternator, using a relay is eliminating running high voltage AMPERAGE not voltage past the firewall and having the shortest power source to the fans, Maybe a read on basic automotive wiring is in order.


It is high amperage through a switch we are trying to avoid. The Dakota Digital controller probably has a built-in mechanical relay, or mosfet switch.

Do you have that exciter wire hooked up? That is the first step here.

Re: Alternator Powermaster 8172 [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2690280
08/22/19 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted by RATTRAP


You can still have them come on with the ignition switch using a relay (wiring 101), The idea is to pull your power from the source not the alternator, using a relay is eliminating running high voltage AMPERAGE not voltage past the firewall and having the shortest power source to the fans, Maybe a read on basic automotive wiring is in order.


It is high amperage through a switch we are trying to avoid. The Dakota Digital controller probably has a built-in mechanical relay, or mosfet switch.

Do you have that exciter wire hooked up? That is the first step here.


According to their instructions.
A second relay is required for dual fan or two speed fan operation.

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