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1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. #2686721
08/12/19 07:44 AM
08/12/19 07:44 AM
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Walton, Indiana
TimS Offline OP
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Just picked up a 70 Gran Coupe that has had a 68 440 swapped into it. The car original had a 318. The steering column rubs the exhaust manifold on the LH side at the manifold flange. Column rubs where the shaft goes into the steering box. Looking at my small block E's and my RR it appears that I may need to get some correct motor mounts. The engine on this Gran coupe also doesn't sit in the compartment straight plus appears to sit too low.

Am I on the right track? I notice Schumacher makes a set of these mounts. It just appears to me it's not a exhaust manifold issue, just that the motor isn't setting in there correctly.

I'll get a picture of it.

Thanks !!


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686727
08/12/19 08:15 AM
08/12/19 08:15 AM
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The brackets on a 68 440 Passenger car except a big block a-body are all the same as what would be used on a 70 440 cuda that has a v-8 k-member. So you either have the wrong brackets or isolators or a /6 k-member that is giving you those issues.....

Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: QuickBpBp] #2686735
08/12/19 08:31 AM
08/12/19 08:31 AM
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TimS Offline OP
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It still has the K member in it that the 318 was mounted to that we took out. I suppose the SB mounts could have been used instead of what was mounted on the C body 440. I assisted with the swap but wasn't there when the 440 was put back in before I got back to it. A buddy of mine did that and it was years ago.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686756
08/12/19 09:16 AM
08/12/19 09:16 AM
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What exhaust manifolds are on it?

Like said before, the original cuda K frame and the '68 440 motor mounts will work together just fine. Not sure exactly how it would sit if they somehow used the sb motor mounts.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2686764
08/12/19 09:26 AM
08/12/19 09:26 AM
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Walton, Indiana
TimS Offline OP
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
What exhaust manifolds are on it?

Like said before, the original cuda K frame and the '68 440 motor mounts will work together just fine. Not sure exactly how it would sit if they somehow used the sb motor mounts.


The original manifolds from the 68 are still on it. These are the standard 440 ones not the HP high flows.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686768
08/12/19 09:31 AM
08/12/19 09:31 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Are they center dump style? Just wondering b/c of how you said the steering shaft rubs. Unless I'm misunderstanding.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2686784
08/12/19 10:00 AM
08/12/19 10:00 AM
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Walton, Indiana
TimS Offline OP
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Are they center dump style? Just wondering b/c of how you said the steering shaft rubs. Unless I'm misunderstanding.



No. They dump toward the rear.

A picture is worth a 1000 words. I'll post one this afternoon. I've got an engine compartment shot but not of the LH side.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686865
08/12/19 12:25 PM
08/12/19 12:25 PM
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On the engine sitting too low - most of the available engine mounts are thinner than the originals, by like 1/8-1/4 in.

DEA is the correct thickness, at least compared to an old mount I had with the Pentastar on it. The engine looks noticeably lower with the other, thinner mounts. You can buy DEA on rock auto real cheap.

Last edited by GTX MATT; 08/12/19 12:25 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686963
08/12/19 05:42 PM
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The E body K members have the steering boxes turned at a slightly different angle than the A,B or C bodies due work shruggy
I would try getting some Hi Po exhaust manifolds from 1967 on and try them to see if they clear twocents scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2686989
08/12/19 06:50 PM
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Could be most anything since someone else did the swap. First step would be to measure if the engine location is correct. If the engine is in the wrong location then fix that. If the engine is in the correct location then go to the next step. Are you going to leave those manifolds on there or put on headers? If the engine is in the correct location then perhaps you need to find a set of the correct manifolds. Have you verified that the transmission mount is correct and properly installed? How does the driveshaft look? Is it correct with the right amount of end play?

Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: AndyF] #2687042
08/12/19 08:45 PM
08/12/19 08:45 PM
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Walton, Indiana
TimS Offline OP
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Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. On second glance it almost appears the engine sits too high instead of what I reported earlier as being too low on the LH side, which is why it rubs the manifold flange. I suppose maybe why it appears not to be straight in the engine compartment.

GC Motor Flange. (640x480).jpgGC Motor (640x480).jpg

1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2687054
08/12/19 09:04 PM
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Good luck. Looks to me like everything on that car will need to be taken apart and fixed.

Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2687101
08/12/19 11:25 PM
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I have seen a big block sitting underneath the hood of a car like that before, both motor mounts were broken.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2687106
08/12/19 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TimS
Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. On second glance it almost appears the engine sits too high instead of what I reported earlier as being too low on the LH side, which is why it rubs the manifold flange. I suppose maybe why it appears not to be straight in the engine compartment.



If you are sure it has the original k-frame, and it has never been wrecked.... the steering box and column angle looks like it is correct to me, then a correct rear dump hp exhaust manifold will fix that area, I dont know if e-bodies used the same log type as a c-body. The engines do not sit perfectly straight in there, keeps the u-joints happy. I will verify 68 c-body mounts will work, they go to the rear of the block ears.

Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: GTX MATT] #2687141
08/13/19 06:34 AM
08/13/19 06:34 AM
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TimS Offline OP
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Originally Posted by GTX MATT
I have seen a big block sitting underneath the hood of a car like that before, both motor mounts were broken.


I will get the car home in a couple of days and check that out. I suppose it could be hunkered in the air to the left, as you face the motor, if that drivers mount was broken. Also making it noticeably crooked.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: 4406bbl] #2687142
08/13/19 06:42 AM
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TimS Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by TimS
Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. On second glance it almost appears the engine sits too high instead of what I reported earlier as being too low on the LH side, which is why it rubs the manifold flange. I suppose maybe why it appears not to be straight in the engine compartment.



If you are sure it has the original k-frame, and it has never been wrecked.... the steering box and column angle looks like it is correct to me, then a correct rear dump hp exhaust manifold will fix that area, I don't know if e-bodies used the same log type as a c-body. The engines do not sit perfectly straight in there, keeps the u-joints happy. I will verify 68 c-body mounts will work, they go to the rear of the block ears.


I'm sure it does still have the original K frame in it. Doesn't appear to have ever been wrecked. also I don't believe the column has ever been out of it. One of the first things I wanted to do was to make sure it had the correct mounts on it too.

I agree that the motors in general don't fit perfectly straight but this one just seems way more noticeably raised up from right to left as you face the motor. Little more difficult to see in the picture than it is in person.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: TimS] #2687156
08/13/19 08:34 AM
08/13/19 08:34 AM
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The motor does look noticeably crooked...right rear too far to the right? If you straighten that up, the exhaust manifold will be even more of a problem. I'd definitely investigate the condition of the current mounts (and trans mount) and look into another driver's side exhaust manifold.

Did E bodies ever come w/ a log style manifold on a 383? A 383 in a grand coupe or something would have been the only possible use of a log type manifold on an E body, but I don't recall ever seeing one. Did they all get HP manifolds?


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2687178
08/13/19 10:17 AM
08/13/19 10:17 AM
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C/B/E all used the same right side HP exhaust manifold.
The 68 C body Lo-po manifolds will not work.
You need the 70-71 B/C HP manifolds

FYI for reference here is a list of manifold casting numbers and what fits what..
http://www.mymopar.com/extcastnumb.htm
Hope this helps.

As a C body guy,I seen a lot of parted out C's that had HP manifolds robbed of their right side manifold for B/E projects--that's if they did not rape the car of its B/RB engine,LOL!

As for the mounts,I recommend removing the C body mounts and get Schumacher SB to RB mounts to adapt to the K member.
Finally, The trans mount for the C body will not fit--you need 70-71 B/E body trans mount--if not done already.
Cheers

Last edited by 68Cbarge; 08/13/19 10:27 AM. Reason: sphellng

'68 Newport Custom Barge on a Budget!! BOAB
1973 Satellite WAGON! 318- 3 on the tree!!
2008 Chrysler 300c HEMI!
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: 4406bbl] #2687254
08/13/19 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 4406bbl
[quote=TimS]Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. On second glance it almost appears the engine sits too high instead of what I reported earlier as being too low on the LH side, which is why it rubs the manifold flange. I suppose maybe why it appears not to be straight in the engine compartment.

I dont know if e-bodies used the same log type as a c-body.

I'm going to say that Mopar never used any log type exhaust manifolds on BB in any year E body.
I've never seen any or a picture of a stock E body with them shruggy work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 1968 C body 440 Swap to 1970 E Body SB Help Needed. [Re: Cab_Burge] #2687279
08/13/19 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by 4406bbl
[quote=TimS]Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. On second glance it almost appears the engine sits too high instead of what I reported earlier as being too low on the LH side, which is why it rubs the manifold flange. I suppose maybe why it appears not to be straight in the engine compartment.

I dont know if e-bodies used the same log type as a c-body.

I'm going to say that Mopar never used any log type exhaust manifolds on BB in any year E body.
I've never seen any or a picture of a stock E body with them shruggy work


I tend to think you are right...but, decades ago I traded a set of rusty hooker headers to a guy for his stock manifolds off of a 1970 383-2 challenger. He brought an hp left and a log style right, but I have no way of knowing if it was factory that way, and I never saw the car. The white books do show a lowpo right manifold that fits bce bodies, but shows no lowpo left, only be hp left for b-e body. Maybe thats how they did it, kind of fits his story. I am not sure. That deal made me not want to comment, you see so few 383-2 e-bodies that have not been motor, header swapped.

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