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Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: crash520] #2670036
06/26/19 04:51 AM
06/26/19 04:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 145
Australia
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dodgy Offline
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Australia
Maybe the earlier pumps were controlled by the canbus but im sure these Ts models are pressure sensitive, you can here this pump ramp up speed when he turns the wheel.
https://youtu.be/Yy6oQPJJ2qY
That said it still wouldn't lower the pressure (to what you want) at full lock but will idle back in the non demand steering. I don't know maybe I'm not seeing it right.

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: dodgy] #2670358
06/26/19 07:19 PM
06/26/19 07:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 247
Brisbane Australia
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crash520 Offline OP
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Brisbane Australia
Originally Posted by dodgy
Maybe the earlier pumps were controlled by the canbus but im sure these Ts models are pressure sensitive, you can here this pump ramp up speed when he turns the wheel.
https://youtu.be/Yy6oQPJJ2qY
That said it still wouldn't lower the pressure (to what you want) at full lock but will idle back in the non demand steering. I don't know maybe I'm not seeing it right.

Yeah I’m not sure either mate, I just don’t know that much about those pumps and I haven’t got the time or money to go splashing it around on a whim, nor have I got the $1400 old mate on the north side wants for his kit

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: crash520] #2670594
06/27/19 10:18 AM
06/27/19 10:18 AM
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Posts: 4,369
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Michigan
What about a GM type II pump with a remote reservoir? That would save a considerable amount of space up front. If you want to dial in the flow and pressure Turn One has hardware that can help.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: MarkZ] #2670817
06/27/19 06:09 PM
06/27/19 06:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 247
Brisbane Australia
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crash520 Offline OP
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Brisbane Australia
Originally Posted by MarkM
What about a GM type II pump with a remote reservoir? That would save a considerable amount of space up front. If you want to dial in the flow and pressure Turn One has hardware that can help.

Mark is that GM pump driven by the crank? If so that my issue, as such, I’m looking at that ability to remove the pump from the engine. Heist do a ps pressure bypass valve but I’m thinking the electric pump would be running flat out the whole time with this fitted, IDK, I’m just spit balling atm , thanks for your input though

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: crash520] #2677496
07/15/19 08:10 AM
07/15/19 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
mopar
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Graz, Austria
Originally Posted by crash520
Originally Posted by dodgy
crash have you got a pump , bloke in Brisbane was selling TS Astra pumps fairly cheap.


Dodgy, yes I saw his adds, according to a PS guy on the Northside the Astra TRW pumps can’t be pressure controlled, so he says, they run around 1400 psi and I’d like it around 800-900 psi, he has a pump kit out of a European car (mini, bmw) that can be, but I’m thinking it’s a sales pitch and I don’t know that much about ps pumps. The Astra pumps are cheap, his conversion pump is $1400😳 and that a little more than I would be prepared to pay


I looked into this a few months ago. There are two Astra pumps: the earlier one (TRW I) puts out about 100 bar (1450psi) whereas the later (TRW II) is around 80 bar (1160 psi). Furthermore the earlier TRW II pumps are pressure controlled (or actually electrical load sensed) and the later ones require an ECU input. You have to look for an early TRW II pump. These pumps came in a variety of different models not only in Astra models.
The benefit of these pumps is speed sensitive power steering (high speed --> low steering input --> low electrical load --> low PS assist)!


btw. if the pressure is still too high you can buy this little device that allows you to adjust the pressure: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Heidts-PS-101-Adjustable-Power-Steering-Valve,14895.html

Have a close look at the connectors (the old pump has just one connection - the newer pump has several). This is the pump you want:

[Linked Image]

That's the newer pump you should avoid:

[Linked Image]

btw. have you looked at Mercedes pumps? W168 pumps (A 168 466 04 01) are 71 bar (1030 psi) and W414 (A 414 466 00 01) pumps are 81 bar (1175 psi).

[Linked Image]

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: DGS] #2679924
07/21/19 11:12 PM
07/21/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
After this was brought up it got me to thinking. I'm planning on AC in my Barracuda convertible and would like to mount the compressor down low on the driver side and I WILL be running power steering. So a little research indicated that all of these have electric pumps:
05-10 Cobalt
06-11 HHR
02-08 Mini
MR2
Subaru XT6
Echo
Yaris
TDi Sportwagen

Some of those are in my local Pick-N-Pull. Anything to avoid, specs, etc.? What does the signal look like to control pressure on those controlled by the ECM? Oh, and Pick-N-Pull is about $40 for ANY power steering pump.

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2679967
07/22/19 03:08 AM
07/22/19 03:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
mopar
DGS  Offline
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Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
Basically all ECU controlled units should be avoided as you would need a computer and several sensors to control the pump. Signal to the pumps is most likely a PWM (pulse width modulated) signal.

IMO the easiest solution for invisible A/C would be a low mount compressor on the passenger side and an electric fuel pump.

Last edited by DGS; 07/22/19 03:10 AM.
Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: DGS] #2680081
07/22/19 12:28 PM
07/22/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
Jim_Lusk  Offline
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Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
I've had enough trouble with electric fuel pumps that, unless I go to injection, I will avoid. I have read where some guys have used Arduino processors programmed to handle the signal. If I go that route I'll just need to learn about them. The problem is that I have yet to find a site that has all the technical info necessary...

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2680728
07/23/19 10:48 PM
07/23/19 10:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Did figure out one thing. I'd need a bigger alternator. The Mini Cooper pump has a 100A fuse. That doesn't mean it draws close to that, but I'd need more than I have...

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: DGS] #2681436
07/25/19 10:47 PM
07/25/19 10:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 247
Brisbane Australia
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crash520 Offline OP
enthusiast
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Brisbane Australia
Originally Posted by DGS
Originally Posted by crash520
Originally Posted by dodgy
crash have you got a pump , bloke in Brisbane was selling TS Astra pumps fairly cheap.


Dodgy, yes I saw his adds, according to a PS guy on the Northside the Astra TRW pumps can’t be pressure controlled, so he says, they run around 1400 psi and I’d like it around 800-900 psi, he has a pump kit out of a European car (mini, bmw) that can be, but I’m thinking it’s a sales pitch and I don’t know that much about ps pumps. The Astra pumps are cheap, his conversion pump is $1400😳 and that a little more than I would be prepared to pay


I looked into this a few months ago. There are two Astra pumps: the earlier one (TRW I) puts out about 100 bar (1450psi) whereas the later (TRW II) is around 80 bar (1160 psi). Furthermore the earlier TRW II pumps are pressure controlled (or actually electrical load sensed) and the later ones require an ECU input. You have to look for an early TRW II pump. These pumps came in a variety of different models not only in Astra models.
The benefit of these pumps is speed sensitive power steering (high speed --> low steering input --> low electrical load --> low PS assist)!


btw. if the pressure is still too high you can buy this little device that allows you to adjust the pressure: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Heidts-PS-101-Adjustable-Power-Steering-Valve,14895.html

Have a close look at the connectors (the old pump has just one connection - the newer pump has several). This is the pump you want:

[Linked Image]

That's the newer pump you should avoid:

[Linked Image]

btw. have you looked at Mercedes pumps? W168 pumps (A 168 466 04 01) are 71 bar (1030 psi) and W414 (A 414 466 00 01) pumps are 81 bar (1175 psi).

[Linked Image]

DGS, this is all good information thank you, I haven’t had a lot of time to delve into it further however I’m sure it’s not such a bad plan and a worthy option if it can be made work, the original Mopar pumps from memory run 900-1300 psi, and are non load sensored obviously. The guys out here with the GM Astra/Opel pumps simply wire the signal wire to 12V and give it full signal. I have one of those bypass regs laying about.
I really like the idea, and apparently the Late model Mini pump can be regulated, they are just expensive out here and for those who need front engine space or to clean up an engine bay it’s the go to, just need someone with smarts and time to work it out

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: crash520] #2681694
07/26/19 10:07 PM
07/26/19 10:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
I'm going to look into the programming of an Arduino or Raspberry Pi (my nephew has some experience with the Raspberry). Could also program the computer to track/monitor/control other things as well (not sure what yet, but...).

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2681931
07/28/19 05:07 AM
07/28/19 05:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
mopar
DGS  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
Originally Posted by Jim_Lusk
I'm going to look into the programming of an Arduino or Raspberry Pi (my nephew has some experience with the Raspberry). Could also program the computer to track/monitor/control other things as well (not sure what yet, but...).


Would be a great idea to incorporate speed signal as input to make it speed sensitive (lots of OEMs have speed sensitive steering): low speed, high assist, high speed, low assist.

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: DGS] #2681932
07/28/19 05:24 AM
07/28/19 05:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
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Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
IMO, about the only simple ways to get to read the speed on an older car without CAN stuff is to feed off the transmission's governor oil-pressure, or install a combined cable and electric pulse sender on the transmission's speedo-connector.

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: BigBlockMopar] #2681946
07/28/19 08:11 AM
07/28/19 08:11 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,175
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
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nowhere
Originally Posted by BigBlockMopar
IMO, about the only simple ways to get to read the speed on an older car without CAN stuff is to feed off the transmission's governor oil-pressure, or install a combined cable and electric pulse sender on the transmission's speedo-connector.


Like this one from an 89 D150?

[Linked Image]

Re: Electric power steering pump [Re: BigBlockMopar] #2682185
07/28/19 11:30 PM
07/28/19 11:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
Jim_Lusk  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by BigBlockMopar
IMO, about the only simple ways to get to read the speed on an older car without CAN stuff is to feed off the transmission's governor oil-pressure, or install a combined cable and electric pulse sender on the transmission's speedo-connector.


That would be the plan. Right now my job is to get the car running so I'll probably just mount the mechanical pump and pick up an electric pump later and play around with it.

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