Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: BSB67]
#2678896
07/18/19 10:21 PM
07/18/19 10:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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Brzezinski cuts them open and closes them again, yes it's not legal. Some of Vizard's work has pics of Wilson-modified SBC dual plane to both improve flow and equalize runner CFMs, not what you'd expect. The upper vs. lower plenum characteristics (height and volume) make this tough to do. I generally radius anything I can reach, do some directional blending where it looks like the flow "wants" to go, but nothing major - I just don't know enough.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: polyspheric]
#2678964
07/19/19 07:43 AM
07/19/19 07:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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what motor you talking? Most fast engine builders send out to get extrude honed. Hemi's get cut up and rewelded.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: JAKE68]
#2678976
07/19/19 08:49 AM
07/19/19 08:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,154 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,154
PA.
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Please tell me it’s not true. Those guys wouldn’t really cheat, would they. Lol.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2678986
07/19/19 09:25 AM
07/19/19 09:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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in f.a.s.t that's not cheating only in pure stock
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: Dragula]
#2679200
07/19/19 07:46 PM
07/19/19 07:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888 Oh
parksr5
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888
Oh
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I appreciate everyone's feedback and pics.
As someone pointed out, in the FAST class, you can modify the factory manifold pretty much however you'd like so; it could be cut up, worked and welded back together. It just needs to be stock appearing. To be clear, I'm not trying to get every last HP out of the thing because I do plan on street driving it too. My goal is to hit 11.50-11.70 on a relatively sticky tire and whatever it runs on the bias ply while running in the FAST class is what it runs. In the past, Dwayne has pointed out that this should be doable with fairly standard port work on the intake. For example, Harry's old bee ran 11.40's with a modified intake that was not cut up, modified and welded back together.
I've attached some pics of my progress so far. In the first pic, I've tried to show the casting line of an un-touched port and how much extra material is present. In the second, I've tried to show in another port (as best as I can with a crappy camera) that I've removed all the material on the one side of the casting line (probably about 1/16) and blended the whole wall. I've been able to get down into the other side of the port relatively far but, I can't capture a good pic of it; I just wish I could get further.
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: parksr5]
#2679212
07/19/19 08:11 PM
07/19/19 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Actually...... on legal tires, Harry’s best was in the 11.50’s, at MIR on a pretty good day.
However, I seem to recall him telling me it went 7.10-7.15 in the 1/8 on small slicks.
With sticky tires you could run mid-11’s pretty easy with 500ft/lbs, 475hp..... Std corrected off the dyno...... in a 3700lb car at a track that’s less than 1000ft elevation, in “reasonable” air.
How much you lose with the bias plies will depend on how well you get that part sorted out.
“If it were me”, I’d pick up another intake if you don’t have one....... do a back to back test against the stock one on the chassis dyno.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: parksr5]
#2679214
07/19/19 08:23 PM
07/19/19 08:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888 Oh
parksr5
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888
Oh
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To quote Rodney Carrington, "I feel like I’m sharing too much with you people" but, my car budget has taken a hit this year. Everything seems to snowball.
Last year, my Fiancé and I decided that we’re not going anywhere for awhile so; I said, fine, I’m building a garage addition.
I went from picture number 1 to picture number 2.
I’m not a pro at anything but, I hate to pay for anything I believe I’m capable of doing myself so; I did the siding work with the help of my future father in law. By myself, I redid all the trim with pvc composite. I ripped all the existing soffit down and redid all of it and finished the new section, added all new facial board and trim, I wired some new lights and fixed some electrical issues. I’ve done a lot of grading but, still have more and yard work to do in the fall. I also hauled in about 2 ton of asphalt millings to finish between the garage and the fence. I was responsible for removing all the excess dirt so; one load at a time, I’ve been shoveling it in my truck and driving it to friend’s properties and leveling their yards. I’ve taken 15 loads out; I have about 6 more. I plan on leveling my back yard with the remainder of the dirt.
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2679223
07/19/19 08:47 PM
07/19/19 08:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888 Oh
parksr5
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Actually...... on legal tires, Harry’s best was in the 11.50’s, at MIR on a pretty good day.
However, I seem to recall him telling me it went 7.10-7.15 in the 1/8 on small slicks.
With sticky tires you could run mid-11’s pretty easy with 500ft/lbs, 475hp..... Std corrected off the dyno...... in a 3700lb car at a track that’s less than 1000ft elevation, in “reasonable” air.
How much you lose with the bias plies will depend on how well you get that part sorted out.
“If it were me”, I’d pick up another intake if you don’t have one....... do a back to back test against the stock one on the chassis dyno. I have a lot of that covered Dwayne. We're under 800ft elevation; the car weighs 3467 without me in it. The car made 42x ft/lbs on a chassis dyno but, I'm down on HP which I believe I can make up with a cam swap. I have the bone stock intake sitting on the numbers matching block stashed in a corner. I put K&G CNC 906 heads on it last year but, I picked up valve train instability around 5600-5700 rpm whereas before, I went as high as 6300 with no sign of issues. The consensus on the board was the springs on the new heads are controlling the valves better. I have a XE comp cam in the thing and it seems to be a standard occurrence. I've really grown to hate the cam over the years; noisy, clattery piece. The cam is a little on the small side too with only 230’s duration at 50 and .480-.490 lift. At the time of the head swap, I also put a dp4b on the car. I ran 12.48 last year on American Racer L60's. The plan is to get the intake done, give you a call for a solid flat tappet cam, get a new converter and throw all this together with a FAST approved carb; I’m running a Holley right now. There are just a lot of things contending for my money right now and I’m trying to catch up from the garage.
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: parksr5]
#2679236
07/19/19 09:25 PM
07/19/19 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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You’re probably already aware of it, but there’s a guy running in Supercar with a 451 in a 68RR....... and I don’t think he’s dipped into the 11’s yet..... but he’s knocking on the door(with legal tires). I think he’ll probably get it this fall. He does a lot of his own work too. I think he had some pics of his manifold posted somewhere. Nice work on the garage
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2679239
07/19/19 09:36 PM
07/19/19 09:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 888 Oh
parksr5
OP
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OP
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You’re probably already aware of it, but there’s a guy running in Supercar with a 451 in a 68RR....... and I don’t think he’s dipped into the 11’s yet..... but he’s knocking on the door(with legal tires). I think he’ll probably get it this fall. He does a lot of his own work too. I think he had some pics of his manifold posted somewhere. Nice work on the garage I believe I saw some pics and posts from that guy on FBBO. I'll have to look around to see if I can find any of his intake manifold pics. Thanks for the kind words about the garage!
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: parksr5]
#2679617
07/21/19 12:45 AM
07/21/19 12:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,504 DFW
mr_340
master
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master
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Posts: 3,504
DFW
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Can you mill the bottom of the intake out and hog away and then make an aluminum insert into the bottom? If they only look at the intake as installed, the door is wide open. I think you would need a flow bench to test every move. You could have hundreds of hours in an intake like that.
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics
[Re: mr_340]
#2679759
07/21/19 02:15 PM
07/21/19 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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In FAST, anything along those lines would be legal........ as long as it looked stock once installed on the motor with the carb in place.
I think it’s real easy to reach the point of extremely diminishing returns when it comes to modifying the stock iron intakes, especially when you factor in that both sides of the motor(intake and exhaust) are pretty heavily restricted.
You could use something like a Performer RPM as the (unattainable) benchmark to gauge how well you’re doing with your efforts in modifying the stock piece.
I’d say the three increments to baseline would be: - an unmodified stock intake - a DP4B with some mild port matching and mild divider work - the ootb RPM
With all other aspects of the car “correct”, this would give you an idea of how much ET is on the table.
If the RPM was only worth say .15 in the 1/4 mile over the untouched stock piece........ how much time and effort do you wan to invest in it?
I would think the mildly tweaked DP4B would be the best indication of what you could expect out of the reworked stock piece.
Attached is a pic of the one on Harry’s Bee. He did the bulk of the work himself........ I pretty much just smoothed over the rough edges and did the port matching, and I didn’t go all that far inside the runners either.
I will say if I had one to do from scratch, I’d do the plenum a little differently....... whether that would actually be an improvement or not is a different story.
Oh, and working on an iron manifold with a carbide in a drill, while kneeling....... in 90deg heat??? N-F’n-W!!
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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