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E body Fast ratio arms ? #2676646
07/11/19 07:03 PM
07/11/19 07:03 PM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline OP
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I just discovered that both my pittman arm and idler arm on my 70 barracuda are well worn. Since I have to replace them anyway, I wondered about going to the fast ratio arms. I have power steering and a gen 2 hemi with TTI headers. What problems would I run into to use these components? Would changing to them affect the alignment job that I just had done? I can replace them with stock if it is going to turn into a problem. PST seems to be reasonably priced, are they a good choice? Thanks!

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Lee446] #2676665
07/11/19 08:58 PM
07/11/19 08:58 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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It’s going to affect the toe setting as the tie rods will have to adjusted to accommodate the new pitman and idler.
It will not affect caster or camber.

You will like it, it makes for a much more responsive set up.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2676694
07/11/19 10:59 PM
07/11/19 10:59 PM
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Frankenduster Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
It’s going to affect the toe setting as the tie rods will have to adjusted to accommodate the new pitman and idler.
It will not affect caster or camber.

You will like it, it makes for a much more responsive set up.


Oddly, when I installed mine, the alignment guy said it only moved my toe setting from zero to 1/8" out.
The F/R arms are about 3/4" to 7/8" longer. If you have more than 1 1/4" of clearance with the stock stuff, you should clear just fine.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2676819
07/12/19 12:31 PM
07/12/19 12:31 PM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline OP
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Thanks for the info! I measured my header clearance and it is a no go on the drivers side. Thanks for giving me a heads up and keeping me from having to return them!

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Lee446] #2676938
07/12/19 09:22 PM
07/12/19 09:22 PM
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Frankenduster Offline
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Sure thing!

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2677231
07/13/19 11:02 PM
07/13/19 11:02 PM
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Grizzly Offline
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Since this is in the handling forum, it's worthy to add that modifying your exhaust is a worthwhile thing to do to get modern day 16:1 ratio.....especially if you are running a smaller diameter steering wheel such as the Tuff Wheel. twocents

I have the Fast Ratio in a few E bodies and would never go back. I have 24:1 power and manual steering in a few others and they will eventually go into the scrap metal pile along with my space saver tires/rims, 450 wheels, frame tie down brackets, and bumper jacks/j-hooks.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Grizzly] #2677300
07/14/19 10:21 AM
07/14/19 10:21 AM
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Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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I've got a new Pro Forged small sector pitman I can't use, if you're interested. I have the big sector shaft box. callme


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Grizzly] #2677311
07/14/19 11:12 AM
07/14/19 11:12 AM
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
Since this is in the handling forum, it's worthy to add that modifying your exhaust is a worthwhile thing to do to get modern day 16:1 ratio.....especially if you are running a smaller diameter steering wheel such as the Tuff Wheel. twocents

I have the Fast Ratio in a few E bodies and would never go back. I have 24:1 power and manual steering in a few others and they will eventually go into the scrap metal pile along with my space saver tires/rims, 450 wheels, frame tie down brackets, and bumper jacks/j-hooks.


Not sure why you think you have a 24:1 power steering box. 15.7:1 is the spec for power steering in the 67 thru 73 fsm, 65 and 66 don't say.

So if you have power steering you have to do nothing to get "modern day 16:1 ratio" it been 15.7:1 since at least 1967.

Not to mention that a 16:1 ratio manual box, with normal length arms, has been available since the early 60's. So I am really at a quandary wondering where you get the idea that a 16:1 ratio is modern, unless you were around when the model T was new.

Last edited by Sniper; 07/14/19 01:14 PM.
Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Sniper] #2677428
07/14/19 08:57 PM
07/14/19 08:57 PM
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Grizzly Offline
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Okay, it's been a really long time since I messed with these.

I Have the regular power as you say in 3 cars, have power with Fast Ratio in another, have manual with Fast Ratio in another, all E bodies.

I was of the understanding that the Fast Ratio power arms brought the steering to 16:1?

So, does the Fast Ratio arms actually bring the power box higher? Say, 14, or 12:1?

Have other vehicles that have 16:1 ratios and they steer faster than my Mopars?

What am I missing here other than a Firm Feel? up

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Grizzly] #2677433
07/14/19 09:12 PM
07/14/19 09:12 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Regular power steering is 15.7:1.

Fast ratio arm on it obviously makes it less than that. On cars that came with the fast ratio arm had a steering box with different stops, same ratio though. According to Firm Feel the p/s ratio with the longer arm is 12:1.

Manual boxes can be 24:1, 20:1 or 16:1, the 24:1 and 16:1 ratios are available new at RockAuto.

I don't know what your other vehicles are, much less what their actual ratio is.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Sniper] #2678831
07/18/19 06:36 PM
07/18/19 06:36 PM
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NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
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I thought the T/A Fast Ratio made it 12.7:1?

Yes... the internal PS box ratios are actually all the same... the difference comes from the longer arms.

The factor screwed up on the E-bodies and didn't install the correct matching longer Idler arm (~70-C-Body.... aka Fast Ratio Idler)... to match the longer "FAST RATIO" Pitman Arm.

Regardless, add a smaller diameter steering wheel and you'll experience quicker steering yet!... and have the PS box rebuilt to tighter specs (IE: FF Stage 2 or preferably Stag-3).


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2678862
07/18/19 07:54 PM
07/18/19 07:54 PM
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Frankenduster Offline
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So it is true? The Fast Ratio idler arm really is just a C body part?
I recently parted out a '70 Polara and saved the Idler arm and bigger tie rod assemblies!

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2679119
07/19/19 02:06 PM
07/19/19 02:06 PM
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moparpollack Offline
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Originally Posted by Frankenduster
So it is true? The Fast Ratio idler arm really is just a C body part?
I recently parted out a '70 Polara and saved the Idler arm and bigger tie rod assemblies!


Yes, but the clocking I believe is splined differently.


55 Pick up 56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bee, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2679123
07/19/19 02:11 PM
07/19/19 02:11 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by Mopar Mitch
I thought the T/A Fast Ratio made it 12.7:1?


I don't know and I can't find any documentation saying what it is, from the factory.

Firm Feel's statement is based on their arm, which may or may not be identical to the factory arm and that's the only thing I could find that gave a ratio with a longer arm.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: moparpollack] #2679576
07/20/19 09:00 PM
07/20/19 09:00 PM
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Frankenduster Offline
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Originally Posted by moparpollack
Originally Posted by Frankenduster
So it is true? The Fast Ratio idler arm really is just a C body part?
I recently parted out a '70 Polara and saved the Idler arm and bigger tie rod assemblies!


Yes, but the clocking I believe is splined differently.


I mentioned the idler....No splines on the idler. I figure the Pitman would be different.
Thanks.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2679579
07/20/19 09:05 PM
07/20/19 09:05 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Reclocking the spline isn't rocket science.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2679623
07/21/19 12:29 AM
07/21/19 12:29 AM
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myduster360 Offline
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The C body Idler and Pitman has a larger diameter tapered stud too, at least compared to an A-body it is. So the drag link would need drilled and reamed to the proper size.

I've had a set of brand new Moog C-body pitman and idler arms in the garage for close to 20 years and never have got around to modifying a drag link to fit them. The cost of the tapered reamer never made economical sense unless i was doing a half dozen or so.


Last edited by myduster360; 07/21/19 12:32 AM.

1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
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Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: myduster360] #2679628
07/21/19 02:04 AM
07/21/19 02:04 AM
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Frankenduster Offline
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The C body Pitman arm I have looks to have the same size stud.

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: myduster360] #2679969
07/22/19 02:13 AM
07/22/19 02:13 AM
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Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
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Originally Posted by myduster360
The C body Idler and Pitman has a larger diameter tapered stud too, at least compared to an A-body it is. So the drag link would need drilled and reamed to the proper size.

I've had a set of brand new Moog C-body pitman and idler arms in the garage for close to 20 years and never have got around to modifying a drag link to fit them. The cost of the tapered reamer never made economical sense unless i was doing a half dozen or so.



I think the idler stud is the same size as A,B,E but the pitman arm stud is larger (which is definitely true for 69+ C-bodies - don't know about the earlier ones).

Re: E body Fast ratio arms ? [Re: Frankenduster] #2680501
07/23/19 01:23 PM
07/23/19 01:23 PM
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NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
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Correct! The dubbed "Fast Ratio Idler arm" is nothing more than a standard C-body idler are (~1970 ish). It always has been, and always will be. No-one ever "invented", created or designed the "fast ratio idler arm". Those who advertise it is simply selling the C-body idler arm and tagging the marketplace dubbed name onto it ("fast-ratio idler arm"). The factory overlooked installing it on the assembly line of the e-bodies when the Fast Ratio PS box was offered in late 70... and carried on for a brief time into 71 for the e-bodies with 340 engine options only. They knew it and determined the added cost and details to get it onto the assembly line were not worth the hassles as the option was soon to be discontinued. I'd spoken with Chrysler personnel in the late 70s about this and that's what they told me. There are no splines to be concerned of when installing the idler arm. The "Fast Ratio Pitman Arm" has splines that require proper one-way-only alignment to the gear box.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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