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Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics #2678825
07/18/19 07:19 PM
07/18/19 07:19 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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I'm more seriously starting to grind on my stock dual plane intake. I plan on running in the FAST class at some point.

I've extensively searched for any good port pics from anyone who's ever extensively ported a dual plane intake. I've found plenty of pics of plenum work but, no good pics of port work. I'm interested to see how deep most are able to get down into the ports.

I don't care if the pics are of an aftermarket intake or stock. Does anyone have any they can post?

Thanks!

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2678845
07/18/19 08:12 PM
07/18/19 08:12 PM
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BSB67 Offline
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I don't think the serious work that is done is accessed through either the plenum or the port window.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: BSB67] #2678896
07/18/19 10:21 PM
07/18/19 10:21 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Brzezinski cuts them open and closes them again, yes it's not legal. Some of Vizard's work has pics of Wilson-modified SBC dual plane to both improve flow and equalize runner CFMs, not what you'd expect. The upper vs. lower plenum characteristics (height and volume) make this tough to do.
I generally radius anything I can reach, do some directional blending where it looks like the flow "wants" to go, but nothing major - I just don't know enough.


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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: polyspheric] #2678964
07/19/19 07:43 AM
07/19/19 07:43 AM
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Shelby mi.
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JAKE68 Offline
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what motor you talking? Most fast engine builders send out to get extrude honed. Hemi's get cut up and rewelded.


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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: JAKE68] #2678976
07/19/19 08:49 AM
07/19/19 08:49 AM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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Please tell me it’s not true. Those guys wouldn’t really cheat, would they. Lol.


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9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: pittsburghracer] #2678986
07/19/19 09:25 AM
07/19/19 09:25 AM
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Shelby mi.
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JAKE68 Offline
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in f.a.s.t that's not cheating only in pure stock


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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679017
07/19/19 10:17 AM
07/19/19 10:17 AM
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jwb123 Offline
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My experience is with stock cast iron intakes on limited pulling truck engines. First extrude honing is like a stream washing out the curves in a river, not the best way to get what you want. I put the manifold in a mill and removed 65% of the center divider. then what I tried to do was radius the upper roof transitions of the runners and plenum. If you put the manifold on a flow bench you will see that lots more air flows along the roof compared to the floor. Second try and get the runners to flow as close to each other as possible, with a dual plane, it will never be perfect. Third texture the floor of the plenum and runners, so that the fuel that falls out of the air stream will be quickly atomized again, I use a carbide that has some chipped flutes, just run it back and forth. I don't have dyno numbers, but the guy went from being last in the points, to third in the points in one year. His competitors paid the fees to have the intake removed and inspected, it was legal. I did three more manifolds after that for other guys in the class.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: polyspheric] #2679062
07/19/19 11:59 AM
07/19/19 11:59 AM
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Valhalla... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Brzezinski cuts them open and closes them again...

https://www.castheads.com/manifolds-carb/intake-manifolds/ported-intake-manifolds/


8^P
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: BradH] #2679093
07/19/19 01:22 PM
07/19/19 01:22 PM
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Taxes R-US, NY
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I ported an Air Gap intake for better distribution.....Also added a 1" open spacer....Man what a difference. Cut the center divider down and radiused everything so it blended as well as it could. ...

Extrude hone works very well too.....I would do all of the stuff I did, and then send it out for that....

DSC09418.JPG

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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: Dragula] #2679200
07/19/19 07:46 PM
07/19/19 07:46 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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I appreciate everyone's feedback and pics.

As someone pointed out, in the FAST class, you can modify the factory manifold pretty much however you'd like so; it could be cut up, worked and welded back together. It just needs to be stock appearing.

To be clear, I'm not trying to get every last HP out of the thing because I do plan on street driving it too. My goal is to hit 11.50-11.70 on a relatively sticky tire and whatever it runs on the bias ply while running in the FAST class is what it runs. In the past, Dwayne has pointed out that this should be doable with fairly standard port work on the intake. For example, Harry's old bee ran 11.40's with a modified intake that was not cut up, modified and welded back together.

I've attached some pics of my progress so far. In the first pic, I've tried to show the casting line of an un-touched port and how much extra material is present. In the second, I've tried to show in another port (as best as I can with a crappy camera) that I've removed all the material on the one side of the casting line (probably about 1/16) and blended the whole wall. I've been able to get down into the other side of the port relatively far but, I can't capture a good pic of it; I just wish I could get further.

IMG_6903.JPGIMG_6904.JPG
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679201
07/19/19 07:48 PM
07/19/19 07:48 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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In these two pics, I’m showing how I’ve opened the upper plenum completely up, removed the divider and begun softening all the turns where the plenum begins entry into the ports which includes the roof. I have a performer RPM sitting right next to this thing so; I’ve really studied the transitions in the plenum and have tried to copy it as best as possible in the stock manifold.

IMG_6912.JPGIMG_6913.JPG
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679206
07/19/19 07:56 PM
07/19/19 07:56 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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Here's some more. Just can't get great pics with the camera I have.

FYI- All of this has been done with Sears and Harbor Freight dremmels and a bunch of bits I've inherited over the years so; nothing special. I did just splurge and purchased a 6 inch long cutting burr but, the collet size is 1/4 so; I really don't have a good tool to chuck it up in. I've been using a standard battery operated drill. Real pro stuff here.

IMG_6919.JPGIMG_6911.JPGIMG_6916.JPG
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679212
07/19/19 08:11 PM
07/19/19 08:11 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Actually...... on legal tires, Harry’s best was in the 11.50’s, at MIR on a pretty good day.

However, I seem to recall him telling me it went 7.10-7.15 in the 1/8 on small slicks.

With sticky tires you could run mid-11’s pretty easy with 500ft/lbs, 475hp..... Std corrected off the dyno...... in a 3700lb car at a track that’s less than 1000ft elevation, in “reasonable” air.

How much you lose with the bias plies will depend on how well you get that part sorted out.

“If it were me”, I’d pick up another intake if you don’t have one....... do a back to back test against the stock one on the chassis dyno.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679214
07/19/19 08:23 PM
07/19/19 08:23 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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To quote Rodney Carrington, "I feel like I’m sharing too much with you people" but, my car budget has taken a hit this year. Everything seems to snowball.

Last year, my Fiancé and I decided that we’re not going anywhere for awhile so; I said, fine, I’m building a garage addition.

I went from picture number 1 to picture number 2.

I’m not a pro at anything but, I hate to pay for anything I believe I’m capable of doing myself so; I did the siding work with the help of my future father in law. By myself, I redid all the trim with pvc composite. I ripped all the existing soffit down and redid all of it and finished the new section, added all new facial board and trim, I wired some new lights and fixed some electrical issues. I’ve done a lot of grading but, still have more and yard work to do in the fall. I also hauled in about 2 ton of asphalt millings to finish between the garage and the fence. I was responsible for removing all the excess dirt so; one load at a time, I’ve been shoveling it in my truck and driving it to friend’s properties and leveling their yards. I’ve taken 15 loads out; I have about 6 more. I plan on leveling my back yard with the remainder of the dirt.

IMG_1929.JPGIMG_6922.JPG
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679216
07/19/19 08:25 PM
07/19/19 08:25 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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I’ve been itching to tinker and work with the intake but, I don’t have a good work space set up so; hours of this work to place with the intake on the ground and me on my knees working.

After awhile, I got tired of that so; I channeled my inner Bob Vila and built a pro intake porting bench in the garage with scrape left over from the garage build.

Since my budget is blown, insulation and other work in the garage has not been completed so; I’m working in very comfortable temperatures.

Now I just need to channel my inner Dwayne Porter and get this intake knocked out.

IMG_6923.JPGIMG_6924.JPG
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #2679223
07/19/19 08:47 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Actually...... on legal tires, Harry’s best was in the 11.50’s, at MIR on a pretty good day.

However, I seem to recall him telling me it went 7.10-7.15 in the 1/8 on small slicks.

With sticky tires you could run mid-11’s pretty easy with 500ft/lbs, 475hp..... Std corrected off the dyno...... in a 3700lb car at a track that’s less than 1000ft elevation, in “reasonable” air.

How much you lose with the bias plies will depend on how well you get that part sorted out.

“If it were me”, I’d pick up another intake if you don’t have one....... do a back to back test against the stock one on the chassis dyno.


I have a lot of that covered Dwayne. We're under 800ft elevation; the car weighs 3467 without me in it. The car made 42x ft/lbs on a chassis dyno but, I'm down on HP which I believe I can make up with a cam swap. I have the bone stock intake sitting on the numbers matching block stashed in a corner.

I put K&G CNC 906 heads on it last year but, I picked up valve train instability around 5600-5700 rpm whereas before, I went as high as 6300 with no sign of issues. The consensus on the board was the springs on the new heads are controlling the valves better. I have a XE comp cam in the thing and it seems to be a standard occurrence. I've really grown to hate the cam over the years; noisy, clattery piece. The cam is a little on the small side too with only 230’s duration at 50 and .480-.490 lift.

At the time of the head swap, I also put a dp4b on the car. I ran 12.48 last year on American Racer L60's.

The plan is to get the intake done, give you a call for a solid flat tappet cam, get a new converter and throw all this together with a FAST approved carb; I’m running a Holley right now.

There are just a lot of things contending for my money right now and I’m trying to catch up from the garage.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679236
07/19/19 09:25 PM
07/19/19 09:25 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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You’re probably already aware of it, but there’s a guy running in Supercar with a 451 in a 68RR....... and I don’t think he’s dipped into the 11’s yet..... but he’s knocking on the door(with legal tires). I think he’ll probably get it this fall.

He does a lot of his own work too.

I think he had some pics of his manifold posted somewhere.

Nice work on the garage up


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #2679239
07/19/19 09:36 PM
07/19/19 09:36 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
You’re probably already aware of it, but there’s a guy running in Supercar with a 451 in a 68RR....... and I don’t think he’s dipped into the 11’s yet..... but he’s knocking on the door(with legal tires). I think he’ll probably get it this fall.

He does a lot of his own work too.

I think he had some pics of his manifold posted somewhere.

Nice work on the garage up


I believe I saw some pics and posts from that guy on FBBO. I'll have to look around to see if I can find any of his intake manifold pics.

Thanks for the kind words about the garage!

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #2679617
07/21/19 12:45 AM
07/21/19 12:45 AM
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mr_340 Offline
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Can you mill the bottom of the intake out and hog away and then make an aluminum insert into the bottom? If they only look at the intake as installed, the door is wide open. I think you would need a flow bench to test every move. You could have hundreds of hours in an intake like that.


Floyd Lippencott IV
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: mr_340] #2679759
07/21/19 02:15 PM
07/21/19 02:15 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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In FAST, anything along those lines would be legal........ as long as it looked stock once installed on the motor with the carb in place.

I think it’s real easy to reach the point of extremely diminishing returns when it comes to modifying the stock iron intakes, especially when you factor in that both sides of the motor(intake and exhaust) are pretty heavily restricted.

You could use something like a Performer RPM as the (unattainable) benchmark to gauge how well you’re doing with your efforts in modifying the stock piece.

I’d say the three increments to baseline would be:
- an unmodified stock intake
- a DP4B with some mild port matching and mild divider work
- the ootb RPM

With all other aspects of the car “correct”, this would give you an idea of how much ET is on the table.

If the RPM was only worth say .15 in the 1/4 mile over the untouched stock piece........ how much time and effort do you wan to invest in it?

I would think the mildly tweaked DP4B would be the best indication of what you could expect out of the reworked stock piece.

Attached is a pic of the one on Harry’s Bee.
He did the bulk of the work himself........ I pretty much just smoothed over the rough edges and did the port matching, and I didn’t go all that far inside the runners either.

I will say if I had one to do from scratch, I’d do the plenum a little differently....... whether that would actually be an improvement or not is a different story.

Oh, and working on an iron manifold with a carbide in a drill, while kneeling....... in 90deg heat???
N-F’n-W!!

1D6FC965-2319-4467-8243-B4ED06BD9635.png

68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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