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Flat washers under flywheel bolts? #2677226
07/13/19 11:40 PM
07/13/19 11:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Question for the group-

Why don't all flywheel bolts have washers? Every flywheel I have ever r&r'd looked ugly where the washerless bolts contacted.

Is there any reason I should not be running flat washers here? I always use red locktite on the bolts per SOP.

Thanks for any insight on this topic.



Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Jeremiah] #2677238
07/14/19 01:18 AM
07/14/19 01:18 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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I try to use thin harden flat washers with thin head bolts, make sure the clutch anti chatter springs don't touch the bolt heads after torqueing before using it that way scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2677281
07/14/19 10:06 AM
07/14/19 10:06 AM
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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The last ARP flywheel/flexplate bolts I bought specifically said not to use washers with them.

I have no idea why.

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: 340Cuda] #2677301
07/14/19 11:26 AM
07/14/19 11:26 AM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted by 340Cuda
The last ARP flywheel/flexplate bolts I bought specifically said not to use washers with them.

I have no idea why.




It’s been 30 years since I messed with a 727 or 904 but if I remember right they use thin headed bolts because of how close they come to the engine block. If you use a washer it would probably hit when you went to turn it.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: 340Cuda] #2677312
07/14/19 12:16 PM
07/14/19 12:16 PM
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St.Pete,Florida
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lancer493 Offline
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I 'think' the small amount of distortion created by tightening the hardened bolts,with their specifically sized and machined area under the head, may help to create a locating effect that is normally accomplished with a dowel or tapered cone. Both of the last 2 would add additional machining steps and cost.I think a hard steel washer would elimate that 'freebie' effect mentioned in the beginning,as it 'may' act as a bushing between the 2 mating surfaces. Not sure if a dowel is included in the equation. That spinning flywheel creates some serious energy there,especially when try to move a 4000lb vehicle with sticky tires. Conical lug nuts on a street car comes to mind.Nothing textbook here, purely speculation and observation. Just my thoughts. Bill

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: lancer493] #2677350
07/14/19 04:15 PM
07/14/19 04:15 PM
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Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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I sheared grade 8 bolts a few months ago. I noticed on the ARP bolts they have a nice flat land under the head that looks pretty nice and was bigger then the land on the grade 8 bolts ATI sends with their flywheel and spacer kit. Plus the ARP bolts are 41something chrome moly.

ATI has issues with the flex plate they sell. I reused my old one because the converter bolt pattern is wrong on the new one.

Last edited by FastmOp; 07/14/19 04:16 PM.
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: FastmOp] #2677375
07/14/19 06:15 PM
07/14/19 06:15 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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If the OP is talking about an actual "flywheel" and not a flex plate you need to be careful the bolt heads don't contact the damper springs of the clutch disc like Cab said. I like the ARP bolts with a flange built in because they are easier on the flywheel. You might be able to get away with some thin hardened AN washers but double check it.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Jeremiah] #2677384
07/14/19 06:58 PM
07/14/19 06:58 PM
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Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing Offline
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The main reasons are washers that thin will either be too soft and squeeze out or too hard(brittle) and break both conditions will cause flywheel/Flex plate to fail.

Last edited by W.I.N. racing; 07/14/19 07:11 PM.

'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: W.I.N. Racing] #2677389
07/14/19 07:16 PM
07/14/19 07:16 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!!

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Stanton] #2677439
07/14/19 10:34 PM
07/14/19 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton
Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!!

Keep in mind that the major auto makers look at saving parts of a penny per car, they are not worried about the motor or car after the warranty runs out work
When it comes to high performance race parts I want to be as safe as possible, especially in the cars I build, drive and race and have to pay for the race parts work
Jeremiah, 55 Ft Lbs. on the stock Mopar 7/16 flywheel bolts with red Locktite up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/15/19 08:19 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2677510
07/15/19 09:00 AM
07/15/19 09:00 AM
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Stanton Offline
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by Stanton
Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!!


When it comes to high performance race parts I want to as safe as possible, especially in the cars I build, drive and race and have pay to for the race parts work


Don't you think ARP would have tossed the idea around ?!?!?

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Stanton] #2677628
07/15/19 01:03 PM
07/15/19 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
[quote=Stanton]Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!!

Don't you think ARP would have tossed the idea around ?!?!?

I'm sure ARP did do a lot of thinking on the Mopar Flywheel and flex plate bolts they sale, hence the thin heads on both up scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2677683
07/15/19 03:10 PM
07/15/19 03:10 PM
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JACK1440 Offline
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Funny this post would pop up. I learned the hard way this year with the new motor. I cracked my convertor and messed up the hub. The cause ended up being that the bolts on the 8 bolt crank were riding against the convertor just slightly, but enough to cause runout. So... there are now .060 flat ground washers between the flex plate and convertor. Haven't made it back out yet.

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: JACK1440] #2678179
07/17/19 08:03 AM
07/17/19 08:03 AM
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dthemi Offline
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Because flywheels flex and can break hardened washers. Then you have projectiles, and a loose crank bolt.

I don't know if this is correct, but I use thread locker on the threads, and carefully brush a very small amount of lube on the flywheel where the bolt head contacts it. Torquing is smoother, and does less damage to the wheel.

Last edited by dthemi; 07/17/19 08:14 AM.
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: dthemi] #2678231
07/17/19 09:51 AM
07/17/19 09:51 AM
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jlatessa Offline
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^^^I like that idea^^^.

Joe

Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: jlatessa] #2678238
07/17/19 10:04 AM
07/17/19 10:04 AM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Just be very very careful with lube and loc-tite. They do not get along well together at all.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2678240
07/17/19 10:09 AM
07/17/19 10:09 AM
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Ohio
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jlatessa Offline
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Noted, thanks...

Joe

Edit, By the way, I ALWAYS clean the threads, both male and female with brake clean before applying thread lockers.

Last edited by jlatessa; 07/17/19 10:13 AM.
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: dthemi] #2678395
07/17/19 06:33 PM
07/17/19 06:33 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Originally Posted by dthemi
Because flywheels flex and can break hardened washers. Then you have projectiles, and a loose crank bolt.

I don't know if this is correct, but I use thread locker on the threads, and carefully brush a very small amount of lube on the flywheel where the bolt head contacts it. Torquing is smoother, and does less damage to the wheel.


I thought I was the only one that done that laugh2 When I build rear ends the shur-grip gets ARP lube under the head and red on the treads,the same for ring gear bolts twocents

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: JACK1440] #2678433
07/17/19 08:07 PM
07/17/19 08:07 PM
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Your experience enforces the need to check converter free play, end play, and travel to the flex plates and fitment of the converter mounting lugs to the flex plate. up
I've had the same problems but ended up using harden head bolt washers to fit between the flex plate and the converter mounting lugs to get it mounted up flush without having to bend the flex plate ears to make them fit flush against the flex plate wrench


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2678495
07/17/19 11:39 PM
07/17/19 11:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Rogue River, OR
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I try to use thin harden flat washers with thin head bolts, make sure the clutch anti chatter springs don't touch the bolt heads after torqueing before using it that way scope


Don't worry there are not clutch hub springs. Those are for sissies! I have used a thin wave washers before but as mentioned a few of them came out intact however they were lightly lubricated for install. I always torque everything and a big 10-4 on the locktite. I have run solid mounts for years and a dab of red seems to be necessary in many places you would not normally have to address.



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