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Carbs evaporating gas ? #2672819
07/01/19 11:33 PM
07/01/19 11:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
420SIX Offline OP
mopar
420SIX  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
Seem all my carburated muscle cars are hard to start after cool down.
Start good when cold but when at running temp and sets for a while, seems to "boil" the fuel out of the bowls ?
Is this what is going on , or am I thinking wrong ?

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: 420SIX] #2672820
07/02/19 12:01 AM
07/02/19 12:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
How hot is the carb getting ? What type ?

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: dOc !] #2672825
07/02/19 12:21 AM
07/02/19 12:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
420SIX Offline OP
mopar
420SIX  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
Normal 180 temp. 6 bbl holleys, dual carter 4bbl, thermoquads, they all seem to do it. I put insulation under manifold as much as possible, don't know what else to do ?

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: 420SIX] #2672827
07/02/19 12:28 AM
07/02/19 12:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
The insulation under the intake isn’t the plan. It restricts air flow under the intake. These are all B or RB engines ? Id consider reducing exh flow through the intake AND insulating the carb from the intake.

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: 420SIX] #2672842
07/02/19 04:50 AM
07/02/19 04:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline
top fuel
kentj340  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
Today's gasoline is formulated for closed injection systems with no regard for evaporation qualities.

Back in the 60s and early 70s, gasoline was formulated to retard evaporation, since almost every car had carburetors open to the atmosphere.

So yes, today's gasoline evaporates much faster than back then.

The plus side is, when the gas evaporates, it does not leave the varnish and other crud that it used to.

The solution is to spray carb cleaner in the intake to allow the engine to start up and pump gas into the bowl. Either that or install an electric fuel pump to be used temporarily during start ups after the bowl goes dry. But don't plumb it so the mechanical pump is trying to pull gas through the electric pump - that won't work.


If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: kentj340] #2672863
07/02/19 07:46 AM
07/02/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
top fuel
Mattax  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Actually the problem has existed for many many years.
Todays pump fuels do tend to have higher loss in the lower temperatures of the distilation curve. Howerver the evaporation rates are still regulated both federally and also by many states. Generally RVP is the basis for regulating evaporation, but some places also use 'drivability'.

Any of several reasons for difficult hot restart could relate to fuel and temperatures.
One is the evaporation off of the intake's walls. When the walls are 'dry' on a hot intake then it will take a little longer to get started.
Another is some fuel loss in the bowl but this should be fairly minor. However what is lost, if the bowls got hot, would be the lightest portions of the fuel - then its like trying to build a fire without tinder.
There also may be overfilled bowls. This was a problem with heat on the fuel lines between the pump and the carb.
Finally, any CAP and subsequent emmissions reduction packages ran retarded timing, leaner mixes at idle which had a side effect of increasing hot start difficulties.

1963 Chrysler Master Tech on vapor in the feed line: http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/188/Page13.htm
Chrysler Fuel pump bypass kit: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2288216/tsb-for-fuel-pump-bypass-kit.html

1973 Master Tech "Lets Get Them Started" http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/307/index.htm
and the film version: http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Films/307/

Examples of fuel distilation curves: https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/hot-fuel-lines.438352/#post-1972557913
More links about Gasoline: https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopa...gular-vs-premium.425033/#post-1972367213

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: kentj340] #2672898
07/02/19 08:58 AM
07/02/19 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,986
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
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Posts: 11,986
Benton, IL.
Originally Posted by kentj340

Either that or install an electric fuel pump to be used temporarily during start ups after the bowl goes dry. But don't plumb it so the mechanical pump is trying to pull gas through the electric pump - that won't work.



Must disagree on that. I have done it that way for many years. Carter mechanical pulls through a Holley electric.

Has the OP blocked the exhaust cross over in the intake?


Master, again and still
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: DaveRS23] #2672923
07/02/19 10:01 AM
07/02/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
C
CKessel Offline
mopar
CKessel  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
On the FBBO site, one of the posters found that the current fuel was boiling at 150*. Under hood and running temps are considerably higher.


Carl Kessel
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: DaveRS23] #2673024
07/02/19 01:10 PM
07/02/19 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,261
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,261
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Originally Posted by kentj340

Either that or install an electric fuel pump to be used temporarily during start ups after the bowl goes dry. But don't plumb it so the mechanical pump is trying to pull gas through the electric pump - that won't work.



Must disagree on that. I have done it that way for many years. Carter mechanical pulls through a Holley electric.



I'll agree with Dave as I to have done the same. But be aware that the electric must be on when romping on it as it does cause a restriction that will result in a loss of fuel pressure / flow. twocents beer

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: TJP] #2673061
07/02/19 02:24 PM
07/02/19 02:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,714
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
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Posts: 20,714
A collage of whims
FWIW, I've checked my latest Road Runner's AVS for bowl evaporation; after a week of sitting in my shop, the bowls are still half-full.

As for the electric + mech pump flow, ran that setup on my Hemi car and 2 others for 33 years so far, no problem.
One uses the Carter electric, another a Holley 110, a third has a Holley inline.

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: DaveRS23] #2673085
07/02/19 03:00 PM
07/02/19 03:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
420SIX Offline OP
mopar
420SIX  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 542
Buckle of corn belt ,c. lll.
Yes..... exhaust crossover is blocked

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: TJP] #2673323
07/02/19 06:35 PM
07/02/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,986
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,986
Benton, IL.
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Originally Posted by kentj340

Either that or install an electric fuel pump to be used temporarily during start ups after the bowl goes dry. But don't plumb it so the mechanical pump is trying to pull gas through the electric pump - that won't work.



Must disagree on that. I have done it that way for many years. Carter mechanical pulls through a Holley electric.



I'll agree with Dave as I to have done the same. But be aware that the electric must be on when romping on it as it does cause a restriction that will result in a loss of fuel pressure / flow. twocents beer


Yep, I run a micro switch on the carb's secondaries to trigger the electric pump along with a manual switch under the dash..........just in case.


Master, again and still
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: DaveRS23] #2673340
07/02/19 07:23 PM
07/02/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,403
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
Worthy
MarkZ  Offline
Worthy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,403
Michigan
Had similar issues with AMC 360 4bbl and cast iron manifold. A phenolic carb spacer fixed the issue. Ordered it off summit.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: MarkZ] #2673523
07/03/19 09:54 AM
07/03/19 09:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 84
Oregon
G
gtx-guy Offline
member
gtx-guy  Offline
member
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Posts: 84
Oregon
Originally Posted by MarkM
Had similar issues with AMC 360 4bbl and cast iron manifold. A phenolic carb spacer fixed the issue. Ordered it off summit.
iagree

Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: gtx-guy] #2677735
07/15/19 06:29 PM
07/15/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 357
The Garden State
LimelightCuda Offline
enthusiast
LimelightCuda  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 357
The Garden State
Has anyone ever tried the Cool Carb stuff? Just wondering if it actually works.


Phil

1970 Barracuda Gran Coupe
1970 A66 Challenger Convertible
Re: Carbs evaporating gas ? [Re: LimelightCuda] #2677802
07/15/19 10:00 PM
07/15/19 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline
master
YO7_A66  Offline
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
I have run the Cool Carb plate on my 340 for about five years or so. It does cool the carb! I have stopped the car in a parking lot, opened the hood to feel the carb to find it cool and sweating. It was strange. But it does get hot after a normal cool down process. But while driving, it seems to make a difference with the air passing around it.

There is a max temp that CC specifies. Get your tuning correct and you should not have problems. I have had manifolds, iron J heads, aluminum heads, and headers on this engine and each time I pull the carb I make an effort to check the spacer plate. I have not had any problems but others will show pictures of the spacer plates melting.
The owner is a nice guy and I would suggest to ask him what his max temp is and decide from his answer. He has a cool story on how he chose this material. 👍. If I remember correctly, it was used as a heat sinc material where he used to work.

Last edited by YO7_A66; 07/16/19 07:28 AM.

1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)






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