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Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2671283
06/28/19 07:07 PM
06/28/19 07:07 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Swap the box, that’s easy enough.

No love for the orange box from me.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: fast68plymouth] #2671299
06/28/19 08:13 PM
06/28/19 08:13 PM
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junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Swap the box, that’s easy enough.

No love for the orange box from me.


I agree except get rid of all of the mopar ignition and install an msd box
And I bet your problem will be gone. I had a 408 stroker that wouldn’t pull past 5k no matter wht box i added.
Installed a msd 6al and problem solved. Ran a lot better all around.

Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: viperblue72] #2671372
06/29/19 12:09 AM
06/29/19 12:09 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
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The 26918 spring are the WRONG spring to have on there...swap them out for a nice double spring and it will eat. The valve's need to be really light for those springs to work properly, especially with a solid FT cam. Beehive's don't like the jerk motion that solid FT's have.


Brian Hafliger
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2671636
06/29/19 05:01 PM
06/29/19 05:01 PM
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California, U.S.A.
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ou812
The 26918 spring are the WRONG spring to have on there...swap them out for a nice double spring and it will eat. The valve's need to be really light for those springs to work properly, especially with a solid FT cam. Beehive's don't like the jerk motion that solid FT's have.


Boy, if that's the case, it really sucks that Comp would recommend them to me.In their defense I did say I was interested in using a beehive style spring, but why would they recommend a part that's completely wrong for the application?


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2671670
06/29/19 07:17 PM
06/29/19 07:17 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Swapping the carb and ign box are easier tests than swapping the springs....... but if they make no difference at all, and it still runs into the wall at 4K......... It’s going to be tough to not start taking a harder look at the springs.

Obviously I’m not seeing or experiencing it first hand........ but from the description........ it acts just like it would if the springs wer giving up.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: fast68plymouth] #2671678
06/29/19 07:43 PM
06/29/19 07:43 PM
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California, U.S.A.
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Swapping the carb and ign box are easier tests than swapping the springs....... but if they make no difference at all, and it still runs into the wall at 4K......... It’s going to be tough to not start taking a harder look at the springs.

Obviously I’m not seeing or experiencing it first hand........ but from the description........ it acts just like it would if the springs wer giving up.



Yes, I agree.. it's just disappointing if the springs are in fact the culprit. I'll do some more testing and report back.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2671718
06/29/19 09:16 PM
06/29/19 09:16 PM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Find a chrome box. Orange box isn't much better than stock. Chrome box will go over 6k. Quicker than springs or carb. I can't see either of those causing the motor to just "Stop" at 4k. Acts more like a rev limit than anything else, to me.

Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: krautrock] #2671949
06/30/19 02:29 PM
06/30/19 02:29 PM
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Update :

I checked a few things last night,
#1. Fuel pump pushrod looks brand new
#2: verified no obstructions in the fuel filter
#3: baselined the carb back to 78's all around ,per factory

Fired it up this morning, did as Fast68 instructed, revved up to 3,800 then pushed past, it climbed about 5,200 then I let off. It felt good.
Took it for a romp,.. pulls clean to about 5k in second then manually shifted to third.. not a hiccup. I'm not sure if re baselining the carb helped, or if I was just being hyper critical (paranoid) on the first few test drives after the new head install, but it seems to be running just how it should, just with some more "umph"..

Thanks to all for your input and suggestions, I appreciate it. So, next step will be some track time to quantify my improvements, hopefully move forward past my previous 12.55 best et.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2671955
06/30/19 02:51 PM
06/30/19 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Have you tried going higher than 5k?

I’d expect with those heads and cam it’ll need about another 1000 rpm(or maybe more) to see the best track times.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2671991
06/30/19 04:32 PM
06/30/19 04:32 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Originally Posted by Torquemonster440

The cam is the .528 solid purple shaft. 1.5 ratio Crane ductile rockers. 5/16" Crower push rods. The pushrods did rub slightly, I used one .015 " spacer shim on each side to achieve clearance next to the intake runners.The springs are Comp 26918-16 , recomended by Comp. 1.8" installed height. Where I exercised some judgement on my part, was to use two .030" shims under each spring to increase my seat pressure from 125 lbs closed to 147 lbs closed. I now know this is not the correct way to achieve more seat pressure. But,by my math of 1.8" installed height -.502 net valve lift, -.060 shim height and a coil bind height of 1.10" I'm still left with .138" clearance from coil bind. I'm really hoping those shims are not my problem. I have visually confirmed that the springs are not close to binding as well.
those crane ductile rockers will check somewhere between 1.57-1.6 true ratio. your actual lift at the valve will be .530-.540. the .028"-.032" recommended lash is somewhat loose; i'd try .022".

Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: fast68plymouth] #2672000
06/30/19 04:50 PM
06/30/19 04:50 PM
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Have you tried going higher than 5k?

I’d expect with those heads and cam it’ll need about another 1000 rpm(or maybe more) to see the best track times.


No, I haven't tried much past 5k. Yes, I probably will need to get to 5,500- 5,800 to see the best e.t. maybe kinda hard with a 28" tire and 3.91's .. I'd probably need more gear.. but I like driving it on the street easy too.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2672012
06/30/19 05:31 PM
06/30/19 05:31 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I was mostly referring to the best shift point.
With the bigger heads and 112lsa cam I can easily imagine where it would want to be shifted at 6000-ish for the best ET.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: fast68plymouth] #2672028
06/30/19 06:04 PM
06/30/19 06:04 PM
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California, U.S.A.
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
I was mostly referring to the best shift point.
With the bigger heads and 112lsa cam I can easily imagine where it would want to be shifted at 6000-ish for the best ET.


Ok, gotcha... yeah on that 12.55 pass I was thru the traps around 5k.. and just left the trans in Drive. It was probably shifting around 4,200. I plan on upgrading to full manual valve body down the road to better control my shift points. I know I'm leaving a lot on the table just making passes in drive, but I'm not a very experienced track guy. I still need a LOT of practice... lol.

Last edited by Torquemonster440; 06/30/19 09:01 PM.

1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2672045
06/30/19 06:54 PM
06/30/19 06:54 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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what car is this in? what torque converter?
a 12.55 seems pretty respectable for short shifting...and it feels alot stronger with the promaxx heads now?

Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: krautrock] #2672109
06/30/19 08:57 PM
06/30/19 08:57 PM
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by krautrock
what car is this in? what torque converter?
a 12.55 seems pretty respectable for short shifting...and it feels alot stronger with the promaxx heads now?


Its in a 66 Satellite.. weighs 3,760 with me in it. It's a 9.5" FTI brand converter with a 3,600 stall. Yeah, 12.55 was better than I expected and that was even with a dismal 1.88 60'. I have a lot of room for improvement. I'm hooked now !

Last edited by Torquemonster440; 06/30/19 08:58 PM.

1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2672508
07/01/19 12:26 PM
07/01/19 12:26 PM
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GTX MATT Offline
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Work your way down more on the jetting as long as the plugs look OK. This is where it helps to have a wideband


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: GTX MATT] #2672571
07/01/19 02:15 PM
07/01/19 02:15 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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going up 4 steps is about a 16% increase in main jet area (a bunch!) without prior testing. I don't think the current valve spring is good but about anything will go 4000rpm.

Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: lewtot184] #2673564
07/03/19 12:17 PM
07/03/19 12:17 PM
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California, U.S.A.
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
Originally Posted by Torquemonster440

The cam is the .528 solid purple shaft. 1.5 ratio Crane ductile rockers. 5/16" Crower push rods. The pushrods did rub slightly, I used one .015 " spacer shim on each side to achieve clearance next to the intake runners.The springs are Comp 26918-16 , recomended by Comp. 1.8" installed height. Where I exercised some judgement on my part, was to use two .030" shims under each spring to increase my seat pressure from 125 lbs closed to 147 lbs closed. I now know this is not the correct way to achieve more seat pressure. But,by my math of 1.8" installed height -.502 net valve lift, -.060 shim height and a coil bind height of 1.10" I'm still left with .138" clearance from coil bind. I'm really hoping those shims are not my problem. I have visually confirmed that the springs are not close to binding as well.
those crane ductile rockers will check somewhere between 1.57-1.6 true ratio. your actual lift at the valve will be .530-.540. the .028"-.032" recommended lash is somewhat loose; i'd try .022".


Good info, I've never verified actual valve lift at the rocker tip. I have them lashed at .026. A little clackity, but better than the factory spec. I think the solid lifter "sewing machine" sound is cool anyway.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2802047
07/28/20 09:36 AM
07/28/20 09:36 AM
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Torquemonster440 Offline OP
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UPDATE :

Just wanted to wrap this thread up. I know it's over a year later, but better late than never.What was happening after the head upgrade with the new beehive valve springs installed , the engine revved so much faster I was actually hitting the flash stall on my converter very easily. I wasn't used to it because of my old valve train, it revved much slower. So on the first couple of shakedown runs it kinda spooked me. I just wasn't used to feeling the engine flash that fast. So now, yes it flashes to about 3,800/4k rpm very quickly, then begins to pull. It pulls clean to 6k. Thanks for everyone's input. Just wanted to cap it off for anyone reading this thread in the future.

Last edited by Torquemonster440; 07/28/20 09:40 AM.

1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: 440 struggles past 4,000 rpm [Re: Torquemonster440] #2802127
07/28/20 01:10 PM
07/28/20 01:10 PM
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it's always good to hear about results after a problem has been solved. up
beer

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