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Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2608006
01/17/19 12:16 PM
01/17/19 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
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Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Originally Posted By 8pack
I know this is an old thread but I finally had time to pull the engine to take a look at the carnage. Just as I suspected the thrust bearing is toast to the point the crank was starting to touch the face of the main caps but didnt do any damage to the block. I verified the clutch was not pushing on the crank while disengaged.

I got a little history lesson in the process of the inspection. Mopar increased the face of the thrust bearing in 73 but that didnt affect the Hemi because it was already out of production. Fast forward to the production of the crate engines and Mopar kept the small thrust bearing face. I believe the combination of the poor machine work, small face thrust bearing with a plain flat thrust surface and the twin disc increased pressure on the surface was responsible for killing it.

Now for the best solution? I am waiting for my new crank to show so I can see if the crank has enough area on the thrust to have the block machined to accept the large area thrust bearing or if I am stuck with the small area thrust bearing. If I am stuck with the small area thrust does anyone have any recommendations where I should change to the style with oil passages and thrust pads or the style with scallopes taken out of the inner face while retaining the outer plain face?


A good machine shop can machine the block for a roller thrust.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: BobR] #2608118
01/17/19 03:43 PM
01/17/19 03:43 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 34
nor cal
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8pack Offline OP
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Originally Posted By BobR


A good machine shop can machine the block for a roller thrust.


I thought about that and talked to a friend about it but we agreed that I am not running a 2000hp engine with a converter forcing the crank forward. I am running a pretty mild engine with a reasonable clutch and should be able to either setup to a better bearing like the Federal with the ramped thrust pads that promote better oiling or change over to the larger thrust bearing.

Has anyone seen a hemi modified to accept the large thrust bearing? I dont think the stock crank had enough bearing surface and I have not had time to check my new crank that arrived last night.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2608138
01/17/19 04:19 PM
01/17/19 04:19 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Don't fix something that is not broke tsk
There is a reason for the problem on your crankshaft, you need to figure EXACTLY what caused it then fix THAT up scope twocents
Please let us know what you find and how much thrust clearance you have with the new crankshaft and new center main bearing wrench thumbs
Increasing the width of the thrust surface on the center main bearing will only add additional wear surface, not stop the wearing work scope
I shoot for between .004 and .010, sometimes up to .012 luck
If less or more then have the problem corrected, bad bearing or thrust surface on the crank scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: Cab_Burge] #2608400
01/18/19 02:12 AM
01/18/19 02:12 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 34
nor cal
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8pack Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Don't fix something that is not broke tsk
There is a reason for the problem on your crankshaft, you need to figure EXACTLY what caused it then fix THAT up scope twocents
Please let us know what you find and how much thrust clearance you have with the new crankshaft and new center main bearing wrench thumbs
Increasing the width of the thrust surface on the center main bearing will only add additional wear surface, not stop the wearing work scope
I shoot for between .004 and .010, sometimes up to .012 luck
If less or more then have the problem corrected, bad bearing or thrust surface on the crank scope


I dont know if it is good or bad but I am definitely not the only person that has had problems.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...ailure-440.html

I think I had 3 things that contributed to my failure and my plan is to address all 3.

1) Plain thrust bearing face.

2) Rough on the thrust face of the crank. When the crank is machined it leaves "star burst" lines radiating outward. Very difficult to polish

3) Excessive clutch pressure (4 speeds). The heavier the clutch, the more pressure needs to be exerted to release it. This force pushes the crank forward against the rear thrust surface. I try not to start my car with my foot on the clutch because there is 0 oil pressure but I have done it out of habit.


The 1st item I plan on changing to a bearing with thrust pads and oil grooves. I have see other forum members and engine build books grind reliefs for extra oiling before the bearings were available.

The 2nd issue will be addressed before installing my new crank.

The 3rd issue is going to be addressed by installing a 3qt accusump connected to the ignition and I am going to have to make it a point to not start it with the clutch engaged or extended periods with the clutch engaged.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2608445
01/18/19 04:37 AM
01/18/19 04:37 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I've owned and drag race a bunch of 4 speed cars from 340 bracket cars to a 1970 Baracuda with a legal Street Hemi motor in it in NHRA stock for 2 1/2 yrs, none of them had crankshaft thrust wear problems shruggy
The Hemi motor started off with a McCleod 3100 Lbs. pressure plate with a 11 inch clutch on the original 170 tooth flywheel, I tried a bunch of different clutch and pressure plate combinations as well as trying different flywheel size and weight all the way down to 18 lb. 130 tooth aluminum flywheel which would bog the motor instead of spinning the tires on the starting line boogie
I ended up finally weighing it for front wheel and rear wheel weight after racing it for 2 1/2 yrs. it had 2169 Lbs. on the front tires and 1280 Lbs. on the rear tires without me in it shock whiney puke
That was the last time I raced that car realcrazy shruggy
I haven't seen a full groove Hemi main bearing set that didn't have the thrust oiling grooves built into them confused shruggy
I have seen posts on here by other members advocating using non full groove main bearings on all types of BB Mopar motors including 426 Hemi motors, not me tsk twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/18/19 04:39 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: Cab_Burge] #2608581
01/18/19 02:23 PM
01/18/19 02:23 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 34
nor cal
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8pack Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

I haven't seen a full groove Hemi main bearing set that didn't have the thrust oiling grooves built into them confused shruggy
I have seen posts on here by other members advocating using non full groove main bearings on all types of BB Mopar motors including 426 Hemi motors, not me tsk twocents


I can almost hear the discussion when they were spec-ing out the Hemi crate engines... Dont worry, it will be fine to put a thrust bearing in with no oiling grooves, mot people run automatics and we will save a couple bucks....

Last edited by 8pack; 01/18/19 03:43 PM.
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2610668
01/22/19 09:04 PM
01/22/19 09:04 PM
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Posts: 2
CA
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Stuntman Bill Offline
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CA
Not to discount 8pack's block woes (sorry, buddy) but do keep posting names of good Mopar wrench-turners in CA, please, folks. I need to find a reliable guy to work on my 440 RB. Someone mentioned "Mt. View Performance" and I cannot find them in the book hereabouts (Bay Area). In Silicon Valley, all the local performance shops specialize in tuning BMW's and the like. I need a guy who knows how to work on a real 'Murrican hot rod, not tweaked-out rice burners.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2610681
01/22/19 09:23 PM
01/22/19 09:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Great Neck,LI,new york
There is much measuring to do when installing new bearings!If you don't have the proper tools to measure you will have to rely on the builder of your choice. up

1.18.17 024.jpg

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: procharged 484] #2610700
01/22/19 09:38 PM
01/22/19 09:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
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Carson City, Nevada
Originally Posted By procharged 484
Steve wann can help you Modesto ca


Steve is at Penella's up

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2611032
01/23/19 02:06 PM
01/23/19 02:06 PM
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Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Las Vegas
Mountain View is in Rancho Cucamonga is why you cannot find them. Frankly not sure they are listed in the book anyway. I lived in the North Bay for 12 years and cannot think of anyone in the south bay area at all


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2611116
01/23/19 04:18 PM
01/23/19 04:18 PM
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Salt Lake City
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Salt Lake City
Rick Santos is in San Leandro. He was good to me.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2611190
01/23/19 07:50 PM
01/23/19 07:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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65signet Offline
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El Dorado Ca
We are not in the Bay area, about 2 1/2 hours east of there, Mopar that is our specialty. Full service Advantage Custom Engines


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: Stuntman Bill] #2611437
01/24/19 04:10 AM
01/24/19 04:10 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 34
nor cal
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8pack Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Stuntman Bill
Not to discount 8pack's block woes (sorry, buddy) but do keep posting names of good Mopar wrench-turners in CA, please, folks. I need to find a reliable guy to work on my 440 RB. Someone mentioned "Mt. View Performance" and I cannot find them in the book hereabouts (Bay Area). In Silicon Valley, all the local performance shops specialize in tuning BMW's and the like. I need a guy who knows how to work on a real 'Murrican hot rod, not tweaked-out rice burners.


I decided to bring it to Joey Gross from Gross Racing. I decided to bring it there because a member recommended him, has a dyno, returns calls, could do the teardown in a timely fashion and he has another Hemi in his shop right now. I will have more feedback in a week or so.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: hemi-itis] #2611440
01/24/19 04:14 AM
01/24/19 04:14 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 34
nor cal
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8pack Offline OP
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Originally Posted By hemi-itis
There is much measuring to do when installing new bearings!If you don't have the proper tools to measure you will have to rely on the builder of your choice. up


I agree, the plan right now is to machine the block to accept a post 1973 440 thrust bearing. After the teardown I will have a better idea what the plan is.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2611610
01/24/19 03:35 PM
01/24/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
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Carson City, Nevada
Originally Posted By 8pack
Originally Posted By Stuntman Bill
Not to discount 8pack's block woes (sorry, buddy) but do keep posting names of good Mopar wrench-turners in CA, please, folks. I need to find a reliable guy to work on my 440 RB. Someone mentioned "Mt. View Performance" and I cannot find them in the book hereabouts (Bay Area). In Silicon Valley, all the local performance shops specialize in tuning BMW's and the like. I need a guy who knows how to work on a real 'Murrican hot rod, not tweaked-out rice burners.


I decided to bring it to Joey Gross from Gross Racing. I decided to bring it there because a member recommended him, has a dyno, returns calls, could do the teardown in a timely fashion and he has another Hemi in his shop right now. I will have more feedback in a week or so.


Joey is a great guy! You will be happy with him.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2671201
06/28/19 04:02 PM
06/28/19 04:02 PM
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Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog Offline
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Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
Could have Gone with Bob Panella in Stockton. thumbs


Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: 8pack] #2671207
06/28/19 04:09 PM
06/28/19 04:09 PM
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Posts: 148
West Palm Beach, Florida
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Craig J Offline
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Should have some hp results in the next few weeks.

8 Pack can give the full story, but the project went out of control...

The engine now has
1. about 2 points more compression
2. 472 cid
3. aluminum heads
4. stage v rocker arms
5. more camshaft

I predict it will make at least 425 hp...

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: racerhog] #2671393
06/29/19 03:43 AM
06/29/19 03:43 AM
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Posts: 580
Livermore, CA
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Dduster Offline
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Steve Wann works for Bob Panella Jr. In Stockton, CA. Why so much drama over a simple stock/street motor with ground up thrust bearings? Clean up or replace crank, New bearings, done. This ain't as hard as this guy is making It. Get the motor apart, figure out what's wrong and fix It.

Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: Craig J] #2671526
06/29/19 11:57 AM
06/29/19 11:57 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by Craig J
Should have some hp results in the next few weeks.

8 Pack can give the full story, but the project went out of control...

The engine now has
1. about 2 points more compression
2. 472 cid
3. aluminum heads
4. stage v rocker arms
5. more camshaft

I predict it will make at least 425 hp...



If it doesn't make 600+ HP on pump gas something is wrong with the parts shruggy twocents work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Reputable Hemi/Mopar Engine Builder in CA [Re: Cab_Burge] #2671643
06/29/19 05:35 PM
06/29/19 05:35 PM
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Wind Gap,Pa.
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Sammy Offline
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Wind Gap,Pa.
After seeing how much knowledge Cab Burge has, I would have no problem giving him my engine to build or rebuild! up

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