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Re: BB head flow? [Re: CSK] #2668473
06/21/19 06:13 PM
06/21/19 06:13 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I find the intake usually kills off some flow.

I “usually” only bother flowing the intake to see how much it’s dropping the head flow.

Occasionally, if I’m having trouble with the port “backing up” at high lifts, and can’t seem to cure it...... I’ll put the manifold on and see if it helps with that trend.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t.

The “fixed orifice” type of bench(what mine is) are much less affected by weather than the “laminar flow element” type bench.
The FO type bench isn’t trying to determine what the actual flow is...... it’s comparing the head to an orifice with a known flow capacity..... and the weather on both “sides” of the bench(inlet and outlet) are always the same as each other.

I had my old SF-110 for 14 years...... and the bench correction factor never changed. Warm, cool, humid, dry........ the test plate always flowed exactly the same(same reading on the manometer)......... if you did the test the same way.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2668481
06/21/19 06:50 PM
06/21/19 06:50 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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I was testing the intake, had that port working fair, That intake killed it, thats why I ended up with the Indy single plane, but my next efi intake set up is what I have wanted all along, it is on the way smile


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: BB head flow? [Re: CSK] #2668483
06/21/19 06:58 PM
06/21/19 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,490
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Offy dual port 360 with twin FiTech’s ? smoke

Or maybe......

0228BF06-47D5-405C-9746-0C8DF58E9134.png

68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2668487
06/21/19 07:10 PM
06/21/19 07:10 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Sent you a PM Dwayne .


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2668524
06/21/19 09:21 PM
06/21/19 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Just re-read my original recommendation.


fast, i re-read your original suggestion. You said use 84cc e-streets rather than the 88cc..Can you tell me why as thats only 4 cc difference? also, why do they make both of those size combustion chambers being they are only 4cc's apart..thats very strange..Again, im asking because i plain and simple dont know and want to understand why, besides the better hardware you were talking about..I totally trust your advice 100000%, i know youve been doing this a long time and everyone recommends you, thats why im bugging you because you know what your doing, i just want to understand too! I know ive saved for a long time to be able to do this and i just want the best one thats in my price range..I would be very dissapointed to buy a set thinking they are going to be all great, then bolt them on and not see much difference. I FINALLY swapped out my stock iron intake for the holley street dominator last week and dont notice any difference, so was kind of dissapointed, but i know it will be better with the new heads. Im guessing the stock intake flowed more than enough for the stock heads. Something i remember reading on another post kind of dissapointed me..they were saying the rpm's and e-streets and stealths were all 84-88cc open chamber heads, and if you are using flat top pistons, then the gain is not worth the expense besides the weight reduction because of little to no quench..I dont understand why it wouldnt be worth it because if you can take your heads off and port them and put them back on and gain a good bit of power, then why cant you bolt on a set of aluminum heads that already have bigger ports and have the same open chamber and still gain decently?

Last edited by mopower440; 06/22/19 07:12 AM.
Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668620
06/22/19 08:58 AM
06/22/19 08:58 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Just re-read my original recommendation.


fast, i re-read your original suggestion. You said use 84cc e-streets rather than the 88cc..Can you tell me why as thats only 4 cc difference? also, why do they make both of those size combustion chambers being they are only 4cc's apart..thats very strange..Again, im asking because i plain and simple dont know and want to understand why, besides the better hardware you were talking about..I totally trust your advice 100000%, i know youve been doing this a long time and everyone recommends you, thats why im bugging you because you know what your doing, i just want to understand too! I know ive saved for a long time to be able to do this and i just want the best one thats in my price range..I would be very dissapointed to buy a set thinking they are going to be all great, then bolt them on and not see much difference. I FINALLY swapped out my stock iron intake for the holley street dominator last week and dont notice any difference, so was kind of dissapointed, but i know it will be better with the new heads. Im guessing the stock intake flowed more than enough for the stock heads. Something i remember reading on another post kind of dissapointed me..they were saying the rpm's and e-streets and stealths were all 84-88cc open chamber heads, and if you are using flat top pistons, then the gain is not worth the expense besides the weight reduction because of little to no quench..I dont understand why it wouldnt be worth it because if you can take your heads off and port them and put them back on and gain a good bit of power, then why cant you bolt on a set of aluminum heads that already have bigger ports and have the same open chamber and still gain decently?
as posted previously; 88cc is for quench dome pistons. you don't have quench dome pistons. 84cc for flat top pistons. you have flat top pistons.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: lewtot184] #2668624
06/22/19 09:09 AM
06/22/19 09:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Just re-read my original recommendation.


fast, i re-read your original suggestion. You said use 84cc e-streets rather than the 88cc..Can you tell me why as thats only 4 cc difference? also, why do they make both of those size combustion chambers being they are only 4cc's apart..thats very strange..Again, im asking because i plain and simple dont know and want to understand why, besides the better hardware you were talking about..I totally trust your advice 100000%, i know youve been doing this a long time and everyone recommends you, thats why im bugging you because you know what your doing, i just want to understand too! I know ive saved for a long time to be able to do this and i just want the best one thats in my price range..I would be very dissapointed to buy a set thinking they are going to be all great, then bolt them on and not see much difference. I FINALLY swapped out my stock iron intake for the holley street dominator last week and dont notice any difference, so was kind of dissapointed, but i know it will be better with the new heads. Im guessing the stock intake flowed more than enough for the stock heads. Something i remember reading on another post kind of dissapointed me..they were saying the rpm's and e-streets and stealths were all 84-88cc open chamber heads, and if you are using flat top pistons, then the gain is not worth the expense besides the weight reduction because of little to no quench..I dont understand why it wouldnt be worth it because if you can take your heads off and port them and put them back on and gain a good bit of power, then why cant you bolt on a set of aluminum heads that already have bigger ports and have the same open chamber and still gain decently?
as posted previously; 88cc is for quench dome pistons. you don't have quench dome pistons. 84cc for flat top pistons. you have flat top pistons.


ahh i see..i missed that..Thanks, this makes sense now.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668628
06/22/19 09:17 AM
06/22/19 09:17 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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If you would simply read and understand the posts from all the folks trying to help you, and do a little product research yourself, you wouldnt wear everyone out with questions and redundant questions.

Just a tip. Take it for what its worth.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: BSB67] #2668638
06/22/19 09:52 AM
06/22/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BSB67
If you would simply read and understand the posts from all the folks trying to help you, and do a little product research yourself, you wouldnt wear everyone out with questions and redundant questions.

Just a tip. Take it for what its worth.


I have read it and researched it and yes, some of it i dont understand..sorry for that. Thats the reason i ask. Another reason i ask is because ive read several posts about manufacturers exaggerating their flow numbers, so i cant go completely by what they say, so again, i have to ask people that have real experience with them. I am listening and going to take the advice..i ask why the certain advice is given simply to learn because i want to know and nothing more..whats wrong with knowing why i was pointed towards a certain part? if you want to learn you have to ask those that know. Thats the reason i really hate coming on here and asking anything because it usually gets someone upset, but this site has smart people on here that i trust, so..

Last edited by mopower440; 06/22/19 10:07 AM.
Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668664
06/22/19 10:56 AM
06/22/19 10:56 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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i would suggest looking for pictures of the 84cc and 88cc chambers and flat top vs quench dome piston pictures. this will help you to completely understand what is best for what your working with. keeping in mind that the top of the piston is actually the floor of the combustion chamber and there are real advantages to matching these two parts up. I use flat top and quench dome pistons but I don't mismatch them with a given chamber design. pictures can be worth a thousand words.

the cost question was brought up but I don't think it was completely answered. the difference in money between what I have in the stage V heads vs the edelbrock 84cc heads is about the same. the edelbrocks did require custom push rods; no shelf push rod would work. ironically the same cylinder block, camshaft and tappets were used in combination with both types of heads. I think the argument about which is best, iron vs alum, is rather subjective. it just depends on what a person wants to do. with stock '452's anything you do will be an upgrade. even a simple pocket port/back cut will give improvements. I have a set of hughs stage I '452's I think would make a great street or moderate bracket head. the guy I got them from payed hughs $1000 for the work. the stage v"s have about $1600-$1700 in them. the edelbrocks I bought were around $1600 but I had to put an extra $250 in the combo for custom push rods; and to get the edelbrocks better than the stage V's may cost $400-$500. you can put way north of $2500 in a head up grade. I guess you have to ask yourself where you want to go with this and how much money do you want to spend to get there.

Last edited by lewtot184; 06/22/19 10:59 AM.
Re: BB head flow? [Re: lewtot184] #2668711
06/22/19 01:18 PM
06/22/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
i would suggest looking for pictures of the 84cc and 88cc chambers and flat top vs quench dome piston pictures. this will help you to completely understand what is best for what your working with. keeping in mind that the top of the piston is actually the floor of the combustion chamber and there are real advantages to matching these two parts up. I use flat top and quench dome pistons but I don't mismatch them with a given chamber design. pictures can be worth a thousand words.

the cost question was brought up but I don't think it was completely answered. the difference in money between what I have in the stage V heads vs the edelbrock 84cc heads is about the same. the edelbrocks did require custom push rods; no shelf push rod would work. ironically the same cylinder block, camshaft and tappets were used in combination with both types of heads. I think the argument about which is best, iron vs alum, is rather subjective. it just depends on what a person wants to do. with stock '452's anything you do will be an upgrade. even a simple pocket port/back cut will give improvements. I have a set of hughs stage I '452's I think would make a great street or moderate bracket head. the guy I got them from payed hughs $1000 for the work. the stage v"s have about $1600-$1700 in them. the edelbrocks I bought were around $1600 but I had to put an extra $250 in the combo for custom push rods; and to get the edelbrocks better than the stage V's may cost $400-$500. you can put way north of $2500 in a head up grade. I guess you have to ask yourself where you want to go with this and how much money do you want to spend to get there.


I did check out the pictures of the edelbrock chambers this morning. I was unsure if the 84 cc were actually a closed chamber being it does have quite a big chamber to it, but i do see the differences now though. As far as money, like i said, the money for E-streets is about the top dollar i can spend along with anything else i need to install them. They will go on the car as is besides being checked out first. Will probably never port them so thats why, in my price range, i want the best flowing heads out of the box. I am assuming that the 84cc's are being recommended over the 75cc's because of the lost flow with the 75cc's?

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668715
06/22/19 01:37 PM
06/22/19 01:37 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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i would get the promaxx 9440 heads from jegs. 84cc closed chambers.
get $100 off right now.

find pittsburghracers thread comparing the promaxx smal block heads to the edelbrocks...the promaxx are finished nicely.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668720
06/22/19 01:53 PM
06/22/19 01:53 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by lewtot184
i would suggest looking for pictures of the 84cc and 88cc chambers and flat top vs quench dome piston pictures. this will help you to completely understand what is best for what your working with. keeping in mind that the top of the piston is actually the floor of the combustion chamber and there are real advantages to matching these two parts up. I use flat top and quench dome pistons but I don't mismatch them with a given chamber design. pictures can be worth a thousand words.

the cost question was brought up but I don't think it was completely answered. the difference in money between what I have in the stage V heads vs the edelbrock 84cc heads is about the same. the edelbrocks did require custom push rods; no shelf push rod would work. ironically the same cylinder block, camshaft and tappets were used in combination with both types of heads. I think the argument about which is best, iron vs alum, is rather subjective. it just depends on what a person wants to do. with stock '452's anything you do will be an upgrade. even a simple pocket port/back cut will give improvements. I have a set of hughs stage I '452's I think would make a great street or moderate bracket head. the guy I got them from payed hughs $1000 for the work. the stage v"s have about $1600-$1700 in them. the edelbrocks I bought were around $1600 but I had to put an extra $250 in the combo for custom push rods; and to get the edelbrocks better than the stage V's may cost $400-$500. you can put way north of $2500 in a head up grade. I guess you have to ask yourself where you want to go with this and how much money do you want to spend to get there.


I did check out the pictures of the edelbrock chambers this morning. I was unsure if the 84 cc were actually a closed chamber being it does have quite a big chamber to it, but i do see the differences now though. As far as money, like i said, the money for E-streets is about the top dollar i can spend along with anything else i need to install them. They will go on the car as is besides being checked out first. Will probably never port them so thats why, in my price range, i want the best flowing heads out of the box. I am assuming that the 84cc's are being recommended over the 75cc's because of the lost flow with the 75cc's?
i'm using 84cc edelbrocks because they work the best for the piston/compression ratio combo I wanted for a pump gas engine. 75cc heads will noticeably raise your compression ratio and this needs to be factored in if your running pump gas. I definetly would check the installed centerline of the camshaft when you take the engine apart. you may be at 102 installed centerline which I wouldn't do.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: krautrock] #2668731
06/22/19 02:22 PM
06/22/19 02:22 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted by krautrock
i would get the promaxx 9440 heads from jegs. 84cc closed chambers.
get $100 off right now.

find pittsburghracers thread comparing the promaxx smal block heads to the edelbrocks...the promaxx are finished nicely.





If you lived closer I would throw one on my bench and get you some flow numbers and do some air speed checks for you for free as I would be curious too. I do before, during, and after flow testing on every head I port. Then I bolt the intake on and finish the job.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668960
06/23/19 09:23 AM
06/23/19 09:23 AM
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carnut68 Offline
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Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by AndyF
Depends on the rest of the combo.


The rest of the combo would stay the same. im saying head swap only, what the increase would be, if any.. Its in a 1972 dart swinger. 9.4:1 440(TRW-2355 pistons), 284/484 MP cam installed 4 degrees advanced, Holley street dominator intake with 1050 cfm 4 bbl., 1 7/7 fenderwell headers, electronic ignition at 20 initial, 34 total. The psitons have a compression height of 2 061. and currently bone stock 88cc 452 heads..How much increase would i be looking at by swapping the bone stock 452 heads for bone stock 88cc edelbrock RPM heads?
Not to change the subject but what convertor are you running? Gear ratio?


America First!
Re: BB head flow? [Re: carnut68] #2669496
06/24/19 07:07 PM
06/24/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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67Satty Offline
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Vista, California
My 440 is almost exactly the same as the OP's. The only differences are the cam (Engle .534 lift, 238@.050") and intake (Performer RPM).

Right now I'm leaning towards either the E Streets or the Pro Maxx heads as the best bang for the buck heads to replace my bone stock 452s. This might be blasphemy but I've been hearing that the casting quality and flow numbers are actually better with the Pro Maxx heads than the Edelbrocks.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: 67Satty] #2669506
06/24/19 07:30 PM
06/24/19 07:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 67Satty
My 440 is almost exactly the same as the OP's. The only differences are the cam (Engle .534 lift, 238@.050") and intake (Performer RPM).

Right now I'm leaning towards either the E Streets or the Pro Maxx heads as the best bang for the buck heads to replace my bone stock 452s. This might be blasphemy but I've been hearing that the casting quality and flow numbers are actually better with the Pro Maxx heads than the Edelbrocks.


I also read that but there was no way in hell i was going to ask about it. Are you also running the 2355 pistons or just pistons with the same compression height?

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2669508
06/24/19 07:35 PM
06/24/19 07:35 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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are the promaxx raised port? big deal if they are.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2669558
06/24/19 09:46 PM
06/24/19 09:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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67Satty Offline
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67Satty  Offline
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Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by 67Satty
My 440 is almost exactly the same as the OP's. The only differences are the cam (Engle .534 lift, 238@.050") and intake (Performer RPM).

Right now I'm leaning towards either the E Streets or the Pro Maxx heads as the best bang for the buck heads to replace my bone stock 452s. This might be blasphemy but I've been hearing that the casting quality and flow numbers are actually better with the Pro Maxx heads than the Edelbrocks.


I also read that but there was no way in hell i was going to ask about it. Are you also running the 2355 pistons or just pistons with the same compression height?


I'm running the 2355 pistons. I'm also running Hooker 1 and 7/8" Comp headers that are made for heads with straight plugs (E Streets, Stealth) but from what I understand can be made to work with angled plug heads (RPMs, Pro Maxx) by dinging a couple tubes. I bough them used and the #2 tube is already dinged so someone may have run them on heads with angled plugs already.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: carnut68] #2669573
06/24/19 10:10 PM
06/24/19 10:10 PM
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carnut68 Offline
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Originally Posted by carnut68
Originally Posted by mopower440
Originally Posted by AndyF
Depends on the rest of the combo.


The rest of the combo would stay the same. im saying head swap only, what the increase would be, if any.. Its in a 1972 dart swinger. 9.4:1 440(TRW-2355 pistons), 284/484 MP cam installed 4 degrees advanced, Holley street dominator intake with 1050 cfm 4 bbl., 1 7/7 fenderwell headers, electronic ignition at 20 initial, 34 total. The psitons have a compression height of 2 061. and currently bone stock 88cc 452 heads..How much increase would i be looking at by swapping the bone stock 452 heads for bone stock 88cc edelbrock RPM heads?
Not to change the subject but what convertor are you running? Gear ratio?
I"m still curious as to what convertor and gear ratio you are running?


America First!
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