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Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2667549
06/19/19 12:28 PM
06/19/19 12:28 PM
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Quote
Ok, so if the stave V's are a big step up from untouched 452's AND the stage V's are similar in power to the RPM's, then why wouldn't those RPM's help me much being they ARE a big step up from 452's? Just asking to learn..


As I said already....... a 40-50hp gain.
That’s about a 13% increase in output by simply installing a street replacement style head.

That is a big step up on that type of build.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2667574
06/19/19 12:58 PM
06/19/19 12:58 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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how much top end power was lost by advancing the cam an additional four degrees? i'd say a loss of 300-500 useable rpm.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: lewtot184] #2667586
06/19/19 01:20 PM
06/19/19 01:20 PM
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Of course if the cam wasn’t degreed in....... it could be 4deg advanced from anywhere.

As far as the “best bang for the buck” in terms of cylinder heads goes....... it really depends on what the end game is.

If that’s a 600hp + stroker, then it’s TF240’s.
If you’re just trying for a reliable 500+/- hp 440 on pump gas, then Ede heads(or the Ede copycats) will get you there for less $$.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2667646
06/19/19 04:48 PM
06/19/19 04:48 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Of course if the cam wasn’t degreed in....... it could be 4deg advanced from anywhere.

As far as the “best bang for the buck” in terms of cylinder heads goes....... it really depends on what the end game is.

If that’s a 600hp + stroker, then it’s TF240’s.
If you’re just trying for a reliable 500+/- hp 440 on pump gas, then Ede heads(or the Ede copycats) will get you there for less $$.


I degreed it in with a degree wheel.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2667648
06/19/19 04:51 PM
06/19/19 04:51 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Has anybody asked the OP what sort of $ he's willing to put out for a cylinder head upgrade? I've always found the money factor to be a good reality check against expectations... even if I've chosen to ignore it. whistling

Re: BB head flow? [Re: BradH] #2667653
06/19/19 05:02 PM
06/19/19 05:02 PM
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Quote
I degreed it in with a degree wheel.


So...... in at 104?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2667683
06/19/19 06:48 PM
06/19/19 06:48 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
I degreed it in with a degree wheel.


So...... in at 104?


Its been 17 years ago, but yes, i believe it was 104 and i did it because of the advice given on this site at the time. Obviously there are better cams out there and i may change it with time also. Wondering if i would be further ahead to send you my 452's to port rather than using stock new aluminum heads? Would that get me more power for the money spent? l would hate to lose the weight savings of the aluminum but if i would get more this way then thats an idea too!

Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2667718
06/19/19 08:12 PM
06/19/19 08:12 PM
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BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
Ok, so if the stave V's are a big step up from untouched 452's AND the stage V's are similar in power to the RPM's, then why wouldn't those RPM's help me much being they ARE a big step up from 452's? Just asking to learn..


As I said already....... a 40-50hp gain.
That’s about a 13% increase in output by simply installing a street replacement style head.

That is a big step up on that type of build.


I think he completely misunderstood your previous comment.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: BSB67] #2667728
06/19/19 08:30 PM
06/19/19 08:30 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
Ok, so if the stave V's are a big step up from untouched 452's AND the stage V's are similar in power to the RPM's, then why wouldn't those RPM's help me much being they ARE a big step up from 452's? Just asking to learn..


As I said already....... a 40-50hp gain.
That’s about a 13% increase in output by simply installing a street replacement style head.

That is a big step up on that type of build.


I think he completely misunderstood your previous comment.


No, i understand..why do you say that?

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2667747
06/19/19 09:20 PM
06/19/19 09:20 PM
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BSB67 Offline
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"I just wanted to highlight that Lews ported stage v’s are a huge step up from a set of untouched 452’s...... so it’s expected that there would be very little difference in power between them and a set of RPM’s"

This

Re: BB head flow? [Re: BSB67] #2667753
06/19/19 09:37 PM
06/19/19 09:37 PM
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Wondering if i would be further ahead to send you my 452's to port rather than using stock new aluminum heads?


That’s not likely.
By the time the heads have been disassembled, cleaned, seats touched up, valves refaced, parts cleaned, reassembled....... plus shipping both ways....... you’ve got a few hundred $$$ before any porting has even been done.

I tell people all the time....... if you’re not doing something where there are rules dictating that stock heads need to be used....... you’re isually ahead using aftermarket heads.

I’m happy to work on the stock heads for those customers who have to use them...... but they really shouldn’t be someone’s first choice...... if “bang for the buck” is part of the selection criteria...... and you’re not going to do the porting yourself.

Speaking of which...... that’s the best bang for the buck........ bowl blend your own heads.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2667767
06/19/19 10:09 PM
06/19/19 10:09 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
Wondering if i would be further ahead to send you my 452's to port rather than using stock new aluminum heads?


That’s not likely.
By the time the heads have been disassembled, cleaned, seats touched up, valves refaced, parts cleaned, reassembled....... plus shipping both ways....... you’ve got a few hundred $$$ before any porting has even been done.

I tell people all the time....... if you’re not doing something where there are rules dictating that stock heads need to be used....... you’re isually ahead using aftermarket heads.

I’m happy to work on the stock heads for those customers who have to use them...... but they really shouldn’t be someone’s first choice...... if “bang for the buck” is part of the selection criteria...... and you’re not going to do the porting yourself.

Speaking of which...... that’s the best bang for the buck........ bowl blend your own heads.


I would rather take advantage of the weight savings with new aluminum heads anyways, so that sounds good!

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2667846
06/20/19 07:57 AM
06/20/19 07:57 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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I've always felt the greatest advantage to alum heads was their ability to be repaired.

Re: BB head flow? [Re: lewtot184] #2667928
06/20/19 11:39 AM
06/20/19 11:39 AM
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Stock heads will work pretty good in the right hands. Heck I ran 9.80's with a set of ported 906 heads back in the 1980's with super stock springs, TRW pistons, stock rods, and a stock crank. Would I use them in a build today? Heck no even though I still have that set of heads sitting in my shop on a shelf.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2667938
06/20/19 11:47 AM
06/20/19 11:47 AM
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There is no stock OEM head that will flow the same as a good new after market bolt on replacement head, I've had many stock heads flowed on different benches and then had Eddy and 440 Source heads out of the box flowed on the same benches and the new head out flow all of them, including the stock M.W. "286" 1962/63 castings shruggy
I had a set of 906 heads ported and polished and upgraded on the valve sizes to 2.14 and 1.81, they flowed 266 CFM at .700 lift. I bought a set of Eddy RPM that Modern Cylinder heads CNC ported and they flowed 310 CFM on the same bench work
My old pump gas Duster ran a best ET of 10.69 at 124.6 MPH with the iron heads and just changing the heads(both sets had 84.0 CC combustion chambers) the car ran 10.49 ET at 127.5 MPH work
I ended up replacing the RPM heads and six pack with a set of Indy SR with M.W. ports and a 400-3 intake with a Holley 1050 CFM Dominator, that let the car run a best of 9.993 ET at 134.* MPH through the complete exhaust system with the air cleaner on boogie
More air and fuel makes more power work
My message is to buy the best heads you can the first time up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: BB head flow? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2668031
06/20/19 03:48 PM
06/20/19 03:48 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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I need to be making a choice soon as I will have the money. I was just reading on the 440 source web site on their stealth heads and how good they supposedly flow AND the price is right.. Are those heads as good as they claim they are? What do you guys think? I wont ever stroke this engine, it will remain a .030 over 446. I want to make as much power as I can with it remaining a 446 with the flat top pistons. So, Fast 68 and the rest, would your pick still be the E-streets or what about the stealths? Like I said, I want the best flowing out of the box heads. maybe later down the road I would be able to send them to you fast69 for some porting, but for now they will be used out of the box, besides checking over when I get them..Oh, also, I am NOT against installing a better cam while im at it, so I could use advice on that also!

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668038
06/20/19 04:13 PM
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I have had 4 sets of 440source heads on my flowbench and they max out a 267cfm@.700 lift. If you want a nicer set of heads that are reasonable and both at Jegs or Summit with a coupon check out ProMax heads. A friend of mine bought a set of their small block heads and the quality was so much nicer than 440source or Edelbrock heads.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: BB head flow? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2668154
06/20/19 10:00 PM
06/20/19 10:00 PM
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Hands down, the “best” of the std port/std port height ootb heads are the Trick Flows.

Everything else is a pretty big step behind that.

Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least.
Sure, they can easily be tweaked for improvements....... but so can the others.

The Ede heads come with better hardware than the copycats.

My preference for all of those heads is the Ede head.
I have more faith in the integrity of the USA made casting vs the import casting, and I trust the hardware.

If you can swing the $$$$...... get the TF’s.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: BB head flow? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2668164
06/20/19 10:26 PM
06/20/19 10:26 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Hands down, the “best” of the std port/std port height ootb heads are the Trick Flows.

Everything else is a pretty big step behind that.

Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least.
Sure, they can easily be tweaked for improvements....... but so can the others.

The Ede heads come with better hardware than the copycats.

My preference for all of those heads is the Ede head.
I have more faith in the integrity of the USA made casting vs the import casting, and I trust the hardware.

If you can swing the $$$$...... get the TF’s.


Dont know if i could swing the TF's..I was reading some old thread where you posted flow numbers and the E-street was dead last, so that kind of bums be out on the edelbrocks..What needs to be done to the stealths to make them trustable and reliable?

Re: BB head flow? [Re: mopower440] #2668205
06/21/19 01:28 AM
06/21/19 01:28 AM
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Dont know if i could swing the TF's..I was reading some old thread where you posted flow numbers and the E-street was dead last, so that kind of bums be out on the edelbrocks..What needs to be done to the stealths to make them trustable and reliable? [/quote]
When it comes to saving money on Hi Po or race parts it is always better to buy good parts to start with than trying to save money by purchasing cheaper parts intending to spend money on them to make them better later work
I have made that mistake more than once, some lessons come easy, some don't realcrazy shruggy
If I was you I would buy the T.F. 240 now and not worry about stepping them up later twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/21/19 01:29 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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