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Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2661882
06/03/19 02:15 PM
06/03/19 02:15 PM
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Posts: 1,780
Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR Offline
top fuel
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Spahn Ranch
I'm fairly convinced that all modern car designs were born out of Tron.

[Linked Image]


'68 Coronet
'71 Duster
'17 Ram 1500
Re: Automotive Design [Re: RMCHRGR] #2661889
06/03/19 02:41 PM
06/03/19 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,666
Virginia
BSharp Offline
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Virginia
Most are a compromise between external Cd and internal space. CAD will find the optimum, so what they have left to play with are grills and taillights.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: BSharp] #2662018
06/03/19 09:26 PM
06/03/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,096
Cruising!
Q
QuickDodge Offline
super stock
QuickDodge  Offline
super stock
Q

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Posts: 1,096
Cruising!

Like most of you guys, I'm not favorably impressed with the styling on most of the new cars. Some of them are not offensive, but the designs do not evoke any desire to own one. Bland is probably a good word to describe the majority of new cars. I like the Challenger, but for daily use I need a 4 door.

Most of these newer cars are just to small for large tall folks. I'm tall and close to normal weight,but do not comfortably fit in many of the cars today. Several of my family members are tall and overweight. Most of the cars built today are cramped for guys that are 6' 5" and 350 lbs. I went car shopping with one of these large guys. Several of the cars were so small that when he sat in the car, he could not even get the door shut!! Of course, front bench seats were phased out 8 to 10 years ago. I miss those. And do not even get me started on how uncomfortable the seats are in many of these new cars!!!! I have not found a single comfortable seat in a lower priced car! About a year ago, I rented several mid size cars. Not only were the seats uncomfortable, the ride quality was nothing to get excited about either! (Especially for a guy with back problems!) I have heard that some of the more expensive cars have better seats and ride better.

The other problem with these newer cars is the lack of luggage space. I need more luggage space than the average person. Most of the vehicles today have small trunks. I believe the Chrysler 300 is among the largest, but it only has 15 cubic feet of trunk space. (The old Ford Panther platform was about 20 cubic feet.)

It is no surprise these new cars are not selling very well. Yes, the new cars perform superbly, but it takes more than performance to sell a vehicle for daily use. The lack of practicality in new cars is part of the reason pick-up trucks, SUV's and cross over vehicles are selling.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: QuickDodge] #2662084
06/04/19 04:06 AM
06/04/19 04:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
M
Morty426 Offline OP
master
Morty426  Offline OP
master
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Originally Posted by QuickDodge

Like most of you guys, I'm not favorably impressed with the styling on most of the new cars. Some of them are not offensive, but the designs do not evoke any desire to own one. Bland is probably a good word to describe the majority of new cars. I like the Challenger, but for daily use I need a 4 door.

Most of these newer cars are just to small for large tall folks. I'm tall and close to normal weight,but do not comfortably fit in many of the cars today. Several of my family members are tall and overweight. Most of the cars built today are cramped for guys that are 6' 5" and 350 lbs. I went car shopping with one of these large guys. Several of the cars were so small that when he sat in the car, he could not even get the door shut!! Of course, front bench seats were phased out 8 to 10 years ago. I miss those. And do not even get me started on how uncomfortable the seats are in many of these new cars!!!! I have not found a single comfortable seat in a lower priced car! About a year ago, I rented several mid size cars. Not only were the seats uncomfortable, the ride quality was nothing to get excited about either! (Especially for a guy with back problems!) I have heard that some of the more expensive cars have better seats and ride better.

The other problem with these newer cars is the lack of luggage space. I need more luggage space than the average person. Most of the vehicles today have small trunks. I believe the Chrysler 300 is among the largest, but it only has 15 cubic feet of trunk space. (The old Ford Panther platform was about 20 cubic feet.)

It is no surprise these new cars are not selling very well. Yes, the new cars perform superbly, but it takes more than performance to sell a vehicle for daily use. The lack of practicality in new cars is part of the reason pick-up trucks, SUV's and cross over vehicles are selling.


Great post.

I'm 6'3" and would love to have a 2 door because the door opening is bigger. I need myself having to contort myself to fit through the entry way. I have a 4 door because that the only way my CTS wagon was built. The CTS has pretty good seats but your big friend probably is not going to fit. So I'll give you a couple of ideas.

I previously had a VW Passat TDI that I let VW buyback. It's a pretty good sized economical car. The trunk is massive. The seat are a little stiff but the car does fit tall people.

I recently rented a Chevy Equinox to transport an NOS Hemi block from Chicago to Sacramento. I drove 12 to 14 hours a day. Felt fine. Very comfortable. Got pretty mileage doing 80-90MPH. I know it's a SUV but not a big one.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2662157
06/04/19 09:35 AM
06/04/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,279
md
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mopars4ever Offline
I Live Here
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md
I feel that most new passenger cars and SUV`s look so much the same that if the names and logo`s were removed most of us wouldn`t even know who manufactured that vehicle.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: mopars4ever] #2662239
06/04/19 12:48 PM
06/04/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,111
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,111
north of coder
Originally Posted by mopars4ever
I feel that most new passenger cars and SUV`s look so much the same that if the names and logo`s were removed most of us wouldn`t even know who manufactured that vehicle.


^^^^^ THIS ! anymore, cars are too hard to get into, and the SUV's and trucks are getting so tall, i have a devil of a time getting into them as well.
my old caravan works for me. it hauls ANYTHING, is easy to get in and out of, [the seats are reasonably comfortable] gets good gas mileage, and i can work on it when it needs done.
and the best part ? NO PAYMENTS ! biggrin
beer

Re: Automotive Design [Re: moparx] #2662259
06/04/19 01:42 PM
06/04/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,640
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
Diego (not Ted) Offline
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 22,640
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
If you can't tell what's what, it doesn't sound like you're an enthusiast.

I know you are but, like I said in an earlier post, the cars we hold dear were not quite held dear by some of the enthusiast press, thinking they were appliances. The masses bought Impalas, Fury IIIs, and Galaxies to get from Point A to Point B, so they were commodities to the general public. We are of a different breed who have attached a different meaning to them.

I'm sure in 20 years, people will be figuring out which bar of soap is the nicest of the bunch. Cars like the Audi TT (the original one) come to mind.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2662261
06/04/19 01:49 PM
06/04/19 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,337
Fort Worth, Texas
3hundred Offline
master
3hundred  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,337
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
If you can't tell what's what, it doesn't sound like you're an enthusiast.


Nondescript generic people movers engender no enthusiasm. Like a Ouija board, they move the needle to ennui.

Robert


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Automotive Design [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2662425
06/04/19 10:53 PM
06/04/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
M
Morty426 Offline OP
master
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M

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
If you can't tell what's what, it doesn't sound like you're an enthusiast.

I know you are but, like I said in an earlier post, the cars we hold dear were not quite held dear by some of the enthusiast press, thinking they were appliances. The masses bought Impalas, Fury IIIs, and Galaxies to get from Point A to Point B, so they were commodities to the general public. We are of a different breed who have attached a different meaning to them.

I'm sure in 20 years, people will be figuring out which bar of soap is the nicest of the bunch. Cars like the Audi TT (the original one) come to mind.


Sure they were commodities as most of them were really designed to last 100K miles. Today we expect more of your cars.

Future cars that will be sought after:
Mazda Miata 1st Gen
RX-7 2nd Gen
RX-7 3rd Gen
All things Porsche 911

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2662433
06/04/19 11:07 PM
06/04/19 11:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780
Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR Offline
top fuel
RMCHRGR  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,780
Spahn Ranch
Originally Posted by Morty426
Future cars that will be sought after:

All things SRT, Hellcat or Demon


Fixed it for ya. thumbs


'68 Coronet
'71 Duster
'17 Ram 1500
Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2662453
06/05/19 12:30 AM
06/05/19 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,640
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
Diego (not Ted) Offline
Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted)  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,640
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
Originally Posted by Morty426


Sure they were commodities as most of them were really designed to last 100K miles.



I'm not sure they were designed to last 100k miles—remember planned obsolescence? People bought cars with relative frequency, IMHO.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2662455
06/05/19 12:56 AM
06/05/19 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,970
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
I Live Here
A12  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,970
N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
I think it's easy to think today's cars are not worthy, but people said the same thing in 1966.

Nonetheless, with the current culture pointing to SUVs and "activity vehicles," while eschewing sedans, it doesn't give me a good feeling.

On the other hand, you have V6 sedans like the Accord that can give a Road Runner a run for its money, and there are still plenty of sports cars out there to get the blood flowing.

And then we don't have normal model years anymore, so it's difficult to find excitement with the new car crop the way I used to.

I'm alright with change, but this is not how I imagined it.


The auto industry as a whole is not self regulated or in total control of design and hasn't been since 1966 when Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards were first imposed. Then add in EPA and CARB emissions regulations and of late the IIHS-HLDI Insurance Safety ratings and a few more regulatory agencies that have their hands in the pot and also even Corporate Average Fuel Economy regs and the need for EV driving distance have an influence on today's vehicle design. Two examples from someone I met that was on the original current Challenger design team. His responsibility at the time was both doors. The entire design team wanted a no "B"-pillar Challenger and you can see the original Challenger concept was without a B-pillar. The rollover standard could not be met without a B-pillar/door and so no roll down rear window and blacked out glass to hide the B-pillar. Total frustration for the design team but is had to be done. My friend then gets hired by Tesla and a new project and goal to bring a car to market. The goal was to have an EV that would be the first to have a 300 mile range at the time. He told me that was kind of an inside bench mark as it was about the distance from LA to Las Vegas...funny but he said it was true. So at the time battery tech was limited for that distance so one of the ways to achieve more distance was to work on better aero dynamics. I told him he should go back to his Mopar roots and study the Wingcars and what they did aero wise and he did. And so now even with a clean sheet of paper there are so many regulations, goals and targets that control design manufactures try to work within that makes it difficult and in the end maybe a little ugly than desired. Yes IMO a Challenger would look a lot better without a B-pillar or a Tesla with a more boxy shape might be more appealing or so might a car with a lower upper door frame or a dash that wasn't three feet long to the base of the windshield wouldn't look so fugly but it is difficult to get around those regs, goals and targets. More to it than meets the eye.

[Linked Image]

Re: Automotive Design [Re: A12] #2662463
06/05/19 03:19 AM
06/05/19 03:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
Swears too much
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...

If i suspend the sheer mass thing, the Challengers still look good. The 300's, NOW... look decent (not sure when the newest generation started). I'll never like a modern "Charger" though. They're out the window with the new Camaro. Mean as hell looking, but ugh.

What I like... is the new Gen 7 Corvette. I've not been in love with how a Corvette looks since 1969, or obviously, 63-67. The 70-72's were decent, but a bit too 'busy' for me. The C4's from 91-96 were pretty cool. The C5 Z06 is growing on me... slowly, but thats only because i've spent literal solid days ov my time researching them now. C'6's? Not a single one. But the C7's... now that is a [censored] sexy car. Too heavy for me, but for sheer looks? Best looking car made today i think. They even made that horrid-since-1997 Corvette ass-end look decent. If the C7's weighed as much as a C5Z, i'd be in love.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: A12] #2662465
06/05/19 03:23 AM
06/05/19 03:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
M
Morty426 Offline OP
master
Morty426  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
I think it's easy to think today's cars are not worthy, but people said the same thing in 1966.

Nonetheless, with the current culture pointing to SUVs and "activity vehicles," while eschewing sedans, it doesn't give me a good feeling.

On the other hand, you have V6 sedans like the Accord that can give a Road Runner a run for its money, and there are still plenty of sports cars out there to get the blood flowing.

And then we don't have normal model years anymore, so it's difficult to find excitement with the new car crop the way I used to.

I'm alright with change, but this is not how I imagined it.


The auto industry as a whole is not self regulated or in total control of design and hasn't been since 1966 when Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards were first imposed. Then add in EPA and CARB emissions regulations and of late the IIHS-HLDI Insurance Safety ratings and a few more regulatory agencies that have their hands in the pot and also even Corporate Average Fuel Economy regs and the need for EV driving distance have an influence on today's vehicle design. Two examples from someone I met that was on the original current Challenger design team. His responsibility at the time was both doors. The entire design team wanted a no "B"-pillar Challenger and you can see the original Challenger concept was without a B-pillar. The rollover standard could not be met without a B-pillar/door and so no roll down rear window and blacked out glass to hide the B-pillar. Total frustration for the design team but is had to be done. My friend then gets hired by Tesla and a new project and goal to bring a car to market. The goal was to have an EV that would be the first to have a 300 mile range at the time. He told me that was kind of an inside bench mark as it was about the distance from LA to Las Vegas...funny but he said it was true. So at the time battery tech was limited for that distance so one of the ways to achieve more distance was to work on better aero dynamics. I told him he should go back to his Mopar roots and study the Wingcars and what they did aero wise and he did. And so now even with a clean sheet of paper there are so many regulations, goals and targets that control design manufactures try to work within that makes it difficult and in the end maybe a little ugly than desired. Yes IMO a Challenger would look a lot better without a B-pillar or a Tesla with a more boxy shape might be more appealing or so might a car with a lower upper door frame or a dash that wasn't three feet long to the base of the windshield wouldn't look so fugly but it is difficult to get around those regs, goals and targets. More to it than meets the eye.



You are forgetting one of the most evil agencies. National Highway Safety. The people that don't care if you know how to drive as long as you are driving a super heavy battle tank down the freeway. That way you will be safe.

And have a 4500# Challenger

And if the Challenger had no B pillar I would own one.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Pale_Roader] #2662466
06/05/19 03:24 AM
06/05/19 03:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,392
Granite Bay
F
Frankenduster Offline
I Live Here
Frankenduster  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,392
Granite Bay
When I saw pictures of the 2019 Ram, I thought that they were ugly as a mud fence. THEN I saw the Ford...THEN the Chevy. Holy smokes, the GM trucks are the worst looking new trucks that I have ever seen. Seriously, they are horrible.
I have seen several 2019 Rams on the road in my travels and they have really grown on me, especially the models with the body color grille. The GM trucks are still hideous.
I make a face like THIS every time I see them:

Angry Chink.jpg
Re: Automotive Design [Re: RMCHRGR] #2662468
06/05/19 03:25 AM
06/05/19 03:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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Morty426 Offline OP
master
Morty426  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Originally Posted by RMCHRGR
Originally Posted by Morty426
Future cars that will be sought after:

All things SRT, Hellcat or Demon


Fixed it for ya. thumbs


laugh2

First they have to survive the 20 years

There was a great post on WTH happens to Hellcat when it gets to it's 3rd owner.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2662471
06/05/19 03:37 AM
06/05/19 03:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Originally Posted by Morty426


You are forgetting one of the most evil agencies. National Highway Safety. The people that don't care if you know how to drive as long as you are driving a super heavy battle tank down the freeway. That way you will be safe.

And have a 4500# Challenger

And if the Challenger had no B pillar I would own one.



YOU WOULD THINK... that a basic knowledge ov physics would be a prerequisite to doing a job like that. Yes... super-safe 2 1/4 ton battlehammer is supersafe, but its also far more likely to GET INTO an accident than something weighing 3000lbs. Its like installing more and more fire-extinguishers on the Hindenburg...

Yup, you'll be safe... WHEN you hit something because your car didn't turn or stop.

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Frankenduster] #2662472
06/05/19 03:37 AM
06/05/19 03:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Originally Posted by Frankenduster
When I saw pictures of the 2019 Ram, I thought that they were ugly as a mud fence. THEN I saw the Ford...THEN the Chevy. Holy smokes, the GM trucks are the worst looking new trucks that I have ever seen. Seriously, they are horrible.
I have seen several 2019 Rams on the road in my travels and they have really grown on me, especially the models with the body color grille. The GM trucks are still hideous.
I make a face like THIS every time I see them:



By 2025 full size trucks will have the same flat frontal (grille/bumper) area as a 60's van...

Re: Automotive Design [Re: Neil] #2662495
06/05/19 08:01 AM
06/05/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,474
Bradenton, Fl 34203
Kilroy was here Offline
pro stock
Kilroy was here  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,474
Bradenton, Fl 34203
Since you asked I'm going to give you my $0.03 worth. Too much computer drafting and to little Hands-On. For example, the speedometer in my 2013 Challenger the metric scale is barely readable. They must have used a an 8-point type. The older speedometers were much easier to read. And now they make kits to redo them for a retro look. Actually looks pretty good.
Robert Lutz, a brilliant engineer said you only need three controls for the heater and air. Now on the newer cars I have to look at the control to touch it or change it. The older controls I could simply put my hand on and feel the fan button or temperature button.

I also think the touchscreen controls are a poor idea because you have to take your eyes off the road.

I will say my 2013 Challenger has been a beautiful car and absolutely trouble-free with 96,000 miles on it now. And one of the nicest riding cars I've ever owned.

And my other thought is this, seems like the Imports put Chrome Trim in the right spots. I think the Challenger could use a little.
–---------–-----------
Moving onto pickup trucks. They make them higher and higher. Next thing you know I'll need a step ladder put something in the bed. Should bring back a 15 inch wheel and a low deck height. It's a work truck.

Last but not least, there should be a mechanical shift into Park.

Last edited by Kilroy was here; 06/05/19 08:03 AM.
Re: Automotive Design [Re: Morty426] #2662547
06/05/19 09:58 AM
06/05/19 09:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,051
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
I Live Here
Neil  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,051
Eagle, Idaho
Originally Posted by Morty426
Originally Posted by RMCHRGR
Originally Posted by Morty426
Future cars that will be sought after:

All things SRT, Hellcat or Demon


Fixed it for ya. thumbs


laugh2

First they have to survive the 20 years

There was a great post on WTH happens to Hellcat when it gets to it's 3rd owner.


They made too many so that kills future prices. Prices are dropping right now and have been since they showed up. Just another used mass production car.

Significant lack of younger people being into cars won't help either. Challengers are Boomer rides where I'm at.

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