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Comp Cams hyd roller ? #2660853
05/31/19 08:57 AM
05/31/19 08:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,035
Western New York
sixpackbee Offline OP
master
sixpackbee  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,035
Western New York
Does a Comp Cams hyd roller require a bronze distributor drive gear? Thanks.


1959 Bugeye Sprite
1967 Charger Black L code
1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner
1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM
1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96
1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car
1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96
1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13
1971 MG Midget
1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57
1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: sixpackbee] #2660880
05/31/19 10:41 AM
05/31/19 10:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,821
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Posts: 25,821
Oregon
I think you need to call Comp or look at the cam card since it varies by engine and cam core. Some do and some don't. I think the BB Mopar core always requires a bronze gear but the SB one might not. Other engines are yes or no.

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: AndyF] #2660897
05/31/19 11:20 AM
05/31/19 11:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,035
Western New York
sixpackbee Offline OP
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sixpackbee  Offline OP
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Western New York
Comp says it does. Cost almost just as much for a hyd street roller install as a flat out solid roller. My first experience with a hyd roller.


1959 Bugeye Sprite
1967 Charger Black L code
1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner
1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM
1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96
1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car
1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96
1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13
1971 MG Midget
1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57
1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: sixpackbee] #2660964
05/31/19 01:59 PM
05/31/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,111
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Posts: 12,111
So. Burlington, Vt.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: sixpackbee] #2660969
05/31/19 02:29 PM
05/31/19 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,230
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Rio Linda, CA
I'm bewildered as to why hydraulic (or any) roller has to be billet instead of cast like factory cams. I understand that insane spring pressures might be marginal with a cast but for the milder grinds why not cast?


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: John_Kunkel] #2661018
05/31/19 06:41 PM
05/31/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,719
Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Wichita
More than one person here has had issues with Comp hydraulic roller lifters, FYI.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's
10.69 @ 128mph with 150hp shot of nitrous

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: sixpackbee] #2662104
06/04/19 07:08 AM
06/04/19 07:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,270
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline
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Windsor, ON, Canada
For what's it worth, here is part of the response I got from one the CompCams Cam Tech folks (beyond the front-line phone support, we went through no less than 5 separate emails regarding this particular cam I picked up) as I inquired regarding the custom ground hydraulic roller cam for my SB:

Quote

...the gear material depends on the material used to make the cam. The cam you have is what is called Austempered Ductile Iron, which is basically the same material a flat tappet cam would be made of, but it is heat treated instead of parkerized like flat tappet cam would be so that the roller profile can be ground onto it and so that the hardened roller wheels can ride on the lobes without damaging the cam. In most cases you will only find the need for a composite or bronze gear when you are using a race type solid roller cam which is made from a solid piece of billet steel. Hopefully that helps and there is a YouTube video on our channel that goes into a little more detail, but the best bet with a custom grind would always be to ask the manufacturer...


The cam gring in question is XR292HR.

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: John_Kunkel] #2662459
06/05/19 01:26 AM
06/05/19 01:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Cottage Grove OR
WFO Offline
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Posts: 93
Cottage Grove OR
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
I'm bewildered as to why hydraulic (or any) roller has to be billet instead of cast like factory cams. I understand that insane spring pressures might be marginal with a cast but for the milder grinds why not cast?



Not to derail the thread but probably 20 years ago the Turbo Buick community was subject to a cast iron roller cam fiasco. These were typical Turbo Buick mild grind cams (208-210) that were apparently made from an OEM cam style cast iron. They all failed, and in short order. Now depending on the base material a camshaft could be heat treated to live in this environment, but the material and heat treatment would need to be designed from the hit, not an afterthought.


'65 Plymouth Sport Fury
Blow thru twin turbo coming soon...
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Diplomat360] #2662600
06/05/19 11:47 AM
06/05/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,961
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online content
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Posts: 32,961
Bend,OR USA
Is your cam a steel billet core or a cast core cam?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2662649
06/05/19 01:21 PM
06/05/19 01:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,032
Oklahoma City
Jwilli500 Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 2,032
Oklahoma City
To further muddy the waters, didn't Comp make some 2-piece cams where the lobe section is billet and the gear end is cast? I'm pretty sure I have a new one in the shed, I'd have to look.
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Is your cam a steel billet core or a cast core cam?

Last edited by Jwilli500; 06/05/19 01:21 PM.
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Jwilli500] #2662884
06/05/19 11:25 PM
06/05/19 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,961
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online content
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Bend,OR USA
I don't think anyone has ever made a Mopar two piece camshaft, for Chevy and Fords ,yes whiney


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2663079
06/06/19 01:42 PM
06/06/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,032
Oklahoma City
Jwilli500 Offline
top fuel
Jwilli500  Offline
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Oklahoma City
Seems like I'm not the only one that has/had one... I'll try to get a pic of it soon

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2297726.html


Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I don't think anyone has ever made a Mopar two piece camshaft, for Chevy and Fords ,yes whiney

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Jwilli500] #2663286
06/06/19 10:28 PM
06/06/19 10:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,961
Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by Jwilli500
Seems like I'm not the only one that has/had one... I'll try to get a pic of it soon

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2297726.html


Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I don't think anyone has ever made a Mopar two piece camshaft, for Chevy and Fords ,yes whiney

Thanks for the link, I called Comp several years ago about having a BB solid roller cam made with a cast front with the oil pump drive gear and they told me no way back then rant shruggy
Maybe it is time to try again work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2663491
06/07/19 01:09 PM
06/07/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,032
Oklahoma City
Jwilli500 Offline
top fuel
Jwilli500  Offline
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Posts: 2,032
Oklahoma City
Might be worth a try but I will say this, the cam I have (for a small block) has been discontinued by Comp.

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: AndyF] #2663508
06/07/19 01:44 PM
06/07/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,933
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Posts: 15,933
S.E. Michigan
Two piece cores were used for 360-380 and 390 Mopar Performance 5.9 magnum based crate engines.

They were a billet steel front with cast gear and rear bearing journal chopped off and pressed + pinned on.
Someone made a few dollars doing lathe and press work.

I believe comp ground them for mopar, 288/292 .501/.513 108 or something pretty close to that was the specs.

I found evidence to support the thought that Comp purchased the cores from Crane
but back at the time I chased it, I could never actually prove it (it is a tangled web).

Unfortunately the one I had on the shelf somehow got wet and developed some nasty rust on a few lobes, and I scrapped it.
It was brand new. I wasn't happy about that at the time. By now, it's probably a Toyota crankshaft or something.

So that's how they got away with a standard drive gear on the crate motors.

But, here's the thing....the 3.9 v6 had no end of drive gear problems and popular belief is, Chrysler went to melonized on that engine after
a certain year to repair the myriad of issues. Then later, the magnum v8s also got the melonized gear. I can't recall the exact year.
But I found evidence to support the idea that near the end of the run for 5.2-5.9, they all had melonized. The engineering community
didn't know about it, as everyone who worked on that had moved on by the time I started working on it.
There are moparts members who know a little something about this, who contacted me around the same time asking questions about it.
They can say something if they want, I am not going to call them out because it's a bit of a gray area with not much documentation
available.

all these gyrations may have been unnecessary had the melonized gear been pointed to and testing been done,
and then a little information shared.


Last edited by ZIPPY; 06/07/19 01:45 PM.

This space intentionally left blank
Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: ZIPPY] #2663542
06/07/19 04:11 PM
06/07/19 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,684
Seattle WA
R
RichV Offline
top fuel
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R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,684
Seattle WA
Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Two piece cores were used for 360-380 and 390 Mopar Performance 5.9 magnum based crate engines.

They were a billet steel front with cast gear and rear bearing journal chopped off and pressed + pinned on.
Someone made a few dollars doing lathe and press work.

I believe comp ground them for mopar, 288/292 .501/.513 108 or something pretty close to that was the specs.

I found evidence to support the thought that Comp purchased the cores from Crane
but back at the time I chased it, I could never actually prove it (it is a tangled web).

Unfortunately the one I had on the shelf somehow got wet and developed some nasty rust on a few lobes, and I scrapped it.
It was brand new. I wasn't happy about that at the time. By now, it's probably a Toyota crankshaft or something.

So that's how they got away with a standard drive gear on the crate motors.

But, here's the thing....the 3.9 v6 had no end of drive gear problems and popular belief is, Chrysler went to melonized on that engine after
a certain year to repair the myriad of issues. Then later, the magnum v8s also got the melonized gear. I can't recall the exact year.
But I found evidence to support the idea that near the end of the run for 5.2-5.9, they all had melonized. The engineering community
didn't know about it, as everyone who worked on that had moved on by the time I started working on it.
There are moparts members who know a little something about this, who contacted me around the same time asking questions about it.
They can say something if they want, I am not going to call them out because it's a bit of a gray area with not much documentation
available.

all these gyrations may have been unnecessary had the melonized gear been pointed to and testing been done,
and then a little information shared.




Is there any way to identify these Melonized gears either at the junkyard or as a new part from Mopar?

Re: Comp Cams hyd roller ? [Re: sixpackbee] #2663910
06/09/19 03:12 AM
06/09/19 03:12 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,145
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Posts: 5,145
Aurora, Colorado
I'm running the 286HR10 cam, Hughes Lifters, Isky 8005A Valve springs, Comp retainers, and bronze oil pump drive gear.

I thought the hydraulic would be quieter than a solid, but not really as the roller valve train seems to have its own sound.
The engine I just finished building, I just used a mild solid roller cam, and slightly higher valve spring pressure so I don't have to worry about limiting the engine RPM like with the hydraulic cam and lower spring pressure.


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