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Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi #2660302 05/29/19 12:09 PM 05/29/19 12:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty OP pro stock
67Satty OP pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	I was watching a 1979 movie showing footage of Top Fuel racing in the late '70s and noticed that all of the rear-engine dragsters in the movie were still using 1st generation Hemis (Donovans I assume). So it got me wondering about the transition from 1st to 2nd generation Hemis in Top Fuel and what the timeline was. Also, did anyone ever use a 2nd generation Hemi in a front engine dragster? I also read somewhere that Donovan got Garlits to switch from a 2nd gen to his 1st gen-based Donovan block at one point. Last edited by 67Satty; 05/29/19 12:14 PM.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: 67Satty] #2660320 05/29/19 12:44 PM 05/29/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,560 yarnell,az M mopacltd pro stock
mopacltd pro stock M Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,560 yarnell,az	I ran a second gen HEMI in my front engine dragster. It was injected on gas though. Was built and run as a JR. fuel when it was built by previous owner

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: mopacltd] #2660321 05/29/19 12:45 PM 05/29/19 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,560 yarnell,az M mopacltd pro stock
mopacltd pro stock M Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,560 yarnell,az	Can someone rotate this picture, Please.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: mopacltd] #2660335 05/29/19 01:03 PM 05/29/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Hopefully this will work.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: 67Satty] #2660336 05/29/19 01:04 PM 05/29/19 01:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York	The challenges: 1. the G-1 is too small (4.000" X 3.906") until the stroke is too long 2. the G-2 oil system needs revision, as Garlits said when asked what he did to the passages to make the motor survive "bored some out, stopped some up" Boffin Emeritus

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: polyspheric] #2660348 05/29/19 01:45 PM 05/29/19 01:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA	Originally Posted by polyspheric The challenges: 1. the G-1 is too small (4.000" X 3.906") until the stroke is too long 2. the G-2 oil system needs revision, as Garlits said when asked what he did to the passages to make the motor survive "bored some out, stopped some up" Me thinks the conversation with Don Garlits on modifying oil systems was when he fix the crankshaft rod oiling passage direction on the Donovan motors Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: 67Satty] #2660350 05/29/19 01:49 PM 05/29/19 01:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA	Don Garlits did help Donovan fix a oiling problem on the crank shaft rod journal oil passage direction early on, maybe 1973/74 I was lucky enough to have several different conversation with him at the races and off track. He is one of the best drag racers and people here on Earth Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #2660356 05/29/19 02:21 PM 05/29/19 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO H Handygun enthusiast
Handygun enthusiast H Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO	The Ramchargers ran a gen II in a FED starting in about 65, more times than not ran fastest time and or low et of the meet. They were "on" to the advance issue with the 426 style before anyone else. Brilliant unequaled team.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: 67Satty] #2660357 05/29/19 02:22 PM 05/29/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas rickseeman master
rickseeman master Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas	Originally Posted by 67Satty I was watching a 1979 movie showing footage of Top Fuel racing in the late '70s and noticed that all of the rear-engine dragsters in the movie were still using 1st generation Hemis (Donovans I assume). So it got me wondering about the transition from 1st to 2nd generation Hemis in Top Fuel and what the timeline was. Also, did anyone ever use a 2nd generation Hemi in a front engine dragster? I also read somewhere that Donovan got Garlits to switch from a 2nd gen to his 1st gen-based Donovan block at one point. The switch started shortly after the Gen II came out. (You will see more videos explaining this.) So, yes, front motor dragsters had 426's. (The footage you saw just happened to have a lot of Donovans in it.) Most everybody was running the KB in the late 70's. And yes, Bigs ran the Donovan for a year in the late 70's. Trying to make it work. But he couldn't get it to run as good as his KB. Last edited by rickseeman; 05/29/19 02:23 PM. 2011 Drag Pak Challenger

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #2660364 05/29/19 02:38 PM 05/29/19 02:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York	He was referring specifically to the 426 engine. Donovan = 392 G-1 @ 4.125" bore. Boffin Emeritus

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: polyspheric] #2660367 05/29/19 02:52 PM 05/29/19 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas rickseeman master
rickseeman master Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas	This is Big Daddy's first Gen II Hemi from the fall of 64. https://garlits.com/portfolio-items/swamp-rat-8/?portfolioCats=28 2011 Drag Pak Challenger

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: rickseeman] #2660396 05/29/19 05:10 PM 05/29/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada	In the '70's even the low budget TF guys had switched to gen II hemi's - mostly iron blocks from Chrysler or wreckers. Big budget "pro's" had aftermarket aluminum blocks.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: Stanton] #2660445 05/29/19 07:43 PM 05/29/19 07:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA	If my memory is correct I think Donovan came out with their 417 C.I. aluminum 392 style hemi block in 1971 or so and Milidon soon followed in 1972 with their Gen 2 426 aluminum blocks I'm not sure when KB got into the aluminum block business Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #2660471 05/29/19 09:07 PM 05/29/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas rickseeman master
rickseeman master Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,630 Stuttgart, Arkansas	I would say the first Keith Black 426 Hemi aluminum block was 1974. 2011 Drag Pak Challenger

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: rickseeman] #2660593 05/30/19 11:59 AM 05/30/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 11,498 Fulton County, PA C CMcAllister Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister Mr. Helpful C Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 11,498 Fulton County, PA	I recall watching a recorded conversation with Garlits (YouTube?) where he was discussing going through the conversion to the 426 seems he couldn’t get it to run and it kept hurting itself. After trying different things he decided to go against current knowledge and throw a bunch of timing at it. The thing came alive and stopped hurting parts. If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.

Re: Top Fuel Transition from 1st to 2nd Gen Hemi [Re: CMcAllister] #2660664 05/30/19 04:34 PM 05/30/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 mopar
Dart451 mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	If I remember the urban myth correctly he advanced the timing to blow up gen 2 so he could run the backup gen 1 engine Car come alive and the rest is history

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