Suggestions on what to do with my motor? - update
#2658540
05/23/19 08:32 PM
05/23/19 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269 Morrow, OH
markz528
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OP
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Morrow, OH
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So the oil in my race car is showing babbitt. Time for a rebuild and upgrade. This combo has been together for 15 years. Background:
67 Coronet 3450 lbs with driver. Best run is 9.61 @ 139.2 mph
When dynoed, motor made 786 hp and 706 torque. I want to go faster, and figure I need to be around 840 hp for where I want to be.
Motor is a 2001 mega block. 528 cubic inch. 4.15 stroke and 4.5 inch bore. 14:1 compression. Hooker 5209 2” headers. Indy SR heads that were flowed and reported to be:
Head Flow @ 28inches H2O Opening Intake Exhaust .200 158.7 120.1 .300 220.8 170.5 .400 271.3 203.2 .500 301.4 225.7 .600 326.0 247.6 .700 345.4 262.3 .800 354.9 269.0
Cam: Solid Roller Lift Intake/Exhaust .706/.676 Duration @ .020 Intake/Exhaust 318/328 (285/290 @ 0.050) Valve Timing @ 0.050 Intake 36 BTDC 68 ABDC Exhaust 79 BBDC 31 ATDC 106 deg centerline Lobe Separation Angle 110 degrees cam installed @ 106 degrees (straight up)
So what do I do with the motor? I don’t want to change heads right now. Will the heads support 840 hp? I will install a new rotating assembly. Should I go with a 4.25, 4.375 or 4.5 inch stroke (541, 557 or 573 cubic inch)? I seriously doubt the SR heads will support 573 cubic inches, but what if I change heads later?
Thoughts?
Last edited by markz528; 06/14/19 10:09 AM.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: markz528]
#2658547
05/23/19 08:51 PM
05/23/19 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’d just build it as a 572, knowing the heads are holding it back and that you’ll likely need something bigger to get into that 850hp zone.
I did one a few years ago....... it was about 870hp with a 440-2/w-4500 adapter , 1150 carb, 14:1, cnc345 Heads, 1.7 rockers, .782 lift cam.
Over 900hp with a TR.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: sgcuda]
#2658550
05/23/19 09:00 PM
05/23/19 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269 Morrow, OH
markz528
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For the power you want, and bigger cubes that you might build, I think that the heads and possibly the headers are going to be your choke point. You didn't mention what you are using for an intake system. The intake is an Indy with a 1150 cfm Dominator. I don't know anything about the intake other than its a single Dominator 4 barrel Indy. How difficult is it to put a 4.5 inch stroke crank in a mega block? Fairly straightforward or is difficult clearance required?
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: markz528]
#2658714
05/24/19 10:25 AM
05/24/19 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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If you use steel rods and a crank with 2.200 rod journals, it won’t require too much clearancing.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: markz528]
#2658841
05/24/19 06:18 PM
05/24/19 06:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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I've been told by several very good heads up racers that a motor with a large bore and short stroke (less than 4.250) will make more power and accelerate faster than the same size C.I. motor with a smaller bore and a longer stroke My next all out motor will have a set of B1-MC heads on a Koleno high nickel 4.500 bore size block to start with and a 4.375 stroke fully counter weighted old Sonny Bryant top fuel crank due to the price and availability of them in SO CA back when I started this project That crank was originally a 4.250 stroke crank with standard Mopar rod journals sizes that I had offset ground down to BB Chevy 2.200 size and offset ground to 4.375 stroke. I'm going to use a set of forged steel 7.100 long Molnar H beam steel rods with 2.200 big ends and .990 small ends I would love to make a similar motor with 4.500 or bigger bore size with a 4.0 stroke crankshaft with the Honda rod journal sizes(1.880?) with a long rod Do you really want to make a motor that will need to be revved between 6000 to 9000 RPM to make power I normally don't but this next B1-MC motor will probably be one like that High RPM, high dollar and high maintenance I dyno tested a 526 C.I. 440 bracket motor (4.380 bore with a 4.375 stroke crankshaft) that had a set of both Indy SR and 440-1 heads on it , both sets where M.W. intake sizes and both had 2.250 intake sizes, I used the same cam, intake, carb and compression ratio for both tests. The SR heads flowed 350 CFM at .700 lift and the CNC ported 440-1 heads flowed 370 CFM at .700 on the same flow bench by the same operator, the SR made 775 HP at around 7000 RPM and the better 440-1 heads made right at 845 HP at a little higher RPM(maybe 7200 to 7400 RPM. I sold that motor and gave all the dyno sheets and flow numbers to the new owner or I could give you more accurate info, sorry
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2658881
05/24/19 08:25 PM
05/24/19 08:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813 MI, usa
dvw
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My oddball combo. 572, 15-1 (Diamond flat top), 7.100 Molnar rods and crank, Comp RX1718 int lobe/XCX1862 exh lobe (285/292) .471" lobe lift 112 lca in at 108, .800" at the valve w/o lash using a 1.7 T&D rocker, Jessel belt box stock Indy 440-25 cross ram, 2 eddy 750's, hand ported -1 w/2.25 int, 2 1/8" Hooker super comps, GZ vacuum pump. It's been 9.00@150/3350lbs. Shift at 7000. Cam is easy on valve train parts Doug
Last edited by dvw; 05/25/19 09:30 AM.
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2658888
05/24/19 08:45 PM
05/24/19 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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A friend had a 572 with the small port b1ba(?) Heads, shifted at 6200, should be geared to go 6400 in the traps. I bet your SR heads on a 572 would do the same. A lot depends on how much$$ you are willing to throw at this motor to go fast. I would start with the biggest short block you can build, up to 572. Next, how much do you want to throw at the topend? If you want serious power, a jump to B1Mc or predator heads would be my choice, with B1mc's being less$ than predators , but still capable of 1050 hp. There is only about a 50 hp difference between SRs fully ported and 440-1s fully ported, and the best valvetrain for -1s fairly costly, but you can use the same pistons as your SRs. So the crux of the matter is for serious hp increases lots more parts need to be changed. My choice would be a 572 with b1mc heads, the cam you have, new headers.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: 440Jim]
#2658932
05/24/19 11:22 PM
05/24/19 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269 Morrow, OH
markz528
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What was the RPM for peak HP of your current setup?
So peak hp was at 6600 rpm. It was very flat from 6300 to 6600, but they did not run the tests past 6600 rpm. Peak torque was at 5500 rpm. I will be digesting all the info. Will drop the car off to pull the motor at the end of summer or early fall so I have some time to think about it. I will be at Brodix in a few weeks, so I will have a conversation with them about the B1 heads. Can I buy bigger off the shelf headers that will fit B1 heads in a stockish 67 B body or are we talking a custom built set?
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor?
[Re: cgall]
#2659208
05/25/19 10:58 PM
05/25/19 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269 Morrow, OH
markz528
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Put new bearings in it and let's go racing Not ready to take it apart yet. Let's go racing before I tear it apart!
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor? - update
[Re: markz528]
#2665768
06/14/19 10:13 AM
06/14/19 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269 Morrow, OH
markz528
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OP
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So it is looking like I have a plan. I was going back and forth if I should buy a Bulldog block (sell my existing motor assembled) or reuse my Megablock and now that I sold my heads and intake, I will be reusing my megablock. It only has around 140 runs on it.
Tony Bischoff (BES) will build the motor. It will be a B1 MC head, 572 CI with 15:1 compression with a new cam. Will be targeting 950 hp. If my et calculator is correct, should get me in the 9.0's in my heavy aerodynamic brick..............
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Suggestions on what to do with my motor? - update
[Re: markz528]
#2665810
06/14/19 12:12 PM
06/14/19 12:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,670 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
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On the parachute mount
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So it is looking like I have a plan. I was going back and forth if I should buy a Bulldog block (sell my existing motor assembled) or reuse my Megablock and now that I sold my heads and intake, I will be reusing my megablock. It only has around 140 runs on it.
Tony Bischoff (BES) will build the motor. It will be a B1 MC head, 572 CI with 15:1 compression with a new cam. Will be targeting 950 hp. If my et calculator is correct, should get me in the 9.0's in my heavy aerodynamic brick.............. MY 530 made 915 @ BES, and its a dedicated nitrous motor. IM SURE yours will make over 1000, not 950
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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