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W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? #2657004
05/19/19 08:08 PM
05/19/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,257
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Hey Everyone!

Alright...so the prep work has started on my W2 Econo Race head build. These will go on the 408 stroker short-block that's getting done in parallel.

I love to do as much of the stuff as my skills allow, and at this point in time in the project that primarily means measuring things and figuring out where the "out of spec" stuff may be.

Here are the parts in question:
1) HEADS - W2 Econo Race - long valve with cast-in pedestals
2) VALVES:
INTAKE - 11702 Manley, 5.240" OAL, 0.290" tip length, 11/32 stem
EXHAUST - 11703 Manley, 5.255 OAL, 0.290" tip length, 11/32 stem
3) SPRINGS - 930 CompCams, dual with damper, 1.900" installed height, 153lbs@1.900, 383 lbs@1.250"
4) RETAINERS - 741 CompCams, 10 deg.
5) LOCKS - 611 CompCams, 10 deg.

The MP recommended installed height on this head is 1.950-2.020", but that is with the original MP valves, which are 5.280" long. Since my Manley valves are only 5.240-255 long I decided to get the 930 springs since they are a 1.900" installed height.

So here are the measurement results:

HEAD_1:
1 INTAKE 1.909
1 EXHAUST 1.868
3 INTAKE 1.915
3 EXHAUST 1.872
5 INTAKE 1.920
5 EXHAUST 1.858
7 INTAKE 1.922
7 EXHAUST 1.857

HEAD_2:
2 INTAKE 1.925
2 EXHAUST 1.870
4 INTAKE 1.917
4 EXHAUST 1.864
6 INTAKE 1.924
6 EXHAUST 1.866
8 INTAKE 1.924
8 EXHAUST 1.861

So while the INTAKES seem to be alright, maybe could actually use a shim, the EXHAUSTS on the other hand are a tad too short.

My question: is the extra spring compression of 0.040" that much of a problem?

I am using the CompCams hydraulic roller lifters and the tech-line guy said I am good for 110-150 lbs @seat position. Per their spring chart the 930s are going to be putting about 171 lbs with another 0.050" compression on them...so my ultimate worry is: am I putting too much pressure on the lifter?

Therefore, since the heads are going to the machine shop next to do the 3/8 to 11/32 switch, should I make the required cut on the exhaust spring seats as well?

Ah, one more thing: the W2 heads have a slightly raised inner spring seat, I believe this should be machined to flush or nearly flush with the outside spring seat, is that correct?

The inner seat on the head is about 0.120-0.125" raised right now, and with the spring retainer's inner seat already being 0.100" lower than the outer seat that means I lose 0.225" already from total spring travel.

The 930 spring has a bind height of 1.160", that means I have a total available travel of 1.900-1.160=0.740, seems comfortable until you drop another 0.225" due to the inner spring seats. Now, the inner spring bind height is 0.900" (measured by compressing the spring in a bench vice with soft jaws), so from that perspective when I add the 0.225" to that number I end up having the same bind height for the outer and inner coils. Is that a bad thing?

Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: Diplomat360] #2657011
05/19/19 08:27 PM
05/19/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,037
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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You’re a little ahead of yourself if the new guides haven’t been installed yet, and then the seats will need to be recut, then remeasure the IH.

I’m not a w2 guru, but someone here will know how much the spring pads can be cut.

Yes, remove the step on the seat/guide.
Both inner and out springs should sit level with each other on the head.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2657019
05/19/19 08:48 PM
05/19/19 08:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 839
ontario canada kingston
aspenrt360 Offline
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you could play with different keepers and locks too once you have all machine work done there are + and - options.


2013 Chrysler 300 touring 1974 Dodge Charger SE. 360-727-8.75-3.23 sure grip 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4
Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2657050
05/19/19 09:50 PM
05/19/19 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,257
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
You’re a little ahead of yourself if the new guides haven’t been installed yet, and then the seats will need to be recut, then remeasure the IH....

Hmm...good point, I assumed that the seats would not actually be cut to install the guide inserts (these heads are new-in-the-box pieces, so never seen any actual use), but since the guides as they are will need to be cut-down for the positive seals anyways, maybe this will be the right time to make the other adjustments as well.

OK, thank you!

Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: aspenrt360] #2657053
05/19/19 09:54 PM
05/19/19 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,257
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by aspenrt360
you could play with different keepers and locks too once you have all machine work done there are + and - options.

Yeah, also crossed my mind, but I haven't reviewed yet what is currently available. I will probably take the machining approach since the heads will be at the shop next anyways. Should that be an expensive operation I will price out the alternative version of retainers that would give me the extra height on the exhaust valves.

Thank you!

Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: Diplomat360] #2657170
05/20/19 10:10 AM
05/20/19 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,037
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Originally Posted by Diplomat360
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
You’re a little ahead of yourself if the new guides haven’t been installed yet, and then the seats will need to be recut, then remeasure the IH....

Hmm...good point, I assumed that the seats would not actually be cut to install the guide inserts (these heads are new-in-the-box pieces, so never seen any actual use), but since the guides as they are will need to be cut-down for the positive seals anyways, maybe this will be the right time to make the other adjustments as well.

OK, thank you!


I think you missed my point about the guides.

The heads are set up to use 3/8” stem valves as they come from MP...... unless it’s some oddball part number instead of a “normal” w2.

You have 11/32” valves, so the heads need to have new guides installed to facilitate their use.

Anytime the guides are installed/replaced, the seats need to be redone.

That’s not even taking into account that the as delivered MP valve job usually kinda sucks....... and if you’re trying to make power, the seats would get recut anyway.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2657215
05/20/19 12:39 PM
05/20/19 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,257
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Diplomat360  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth

I think you missed my point about the guides.

The heads are set up to use 3/8” stem valves as they come from MP...... unless it’s some oddball part number instead of a “normal” w2.

You have 11/32” valves, so the heads need to have new guides installed to facilitate their use...

Ha...you bet I did...LOL! Thanks for clarifying.

Since my mind was on all things "valve springs" when you said "...seat..." I automatically assumed we were talking the spring seats in the heads, meanwhile you were talking about the valve seats. Got it!

Well, I do admit that I have heard many iffy comments about the MP valve seat work many comments about the iffy MP valve seat work before. This particular shop did have a cursory look at the heads and thought they would be fine for a standard street/strip 3 angle setup. Once the shop begins the bigger work and is doing actualy precision checks, if this does not pan out then yes, the valve seats would get re-done, and all bets would be off.

BTW: So what's the take these days on the benefits of something like a 5-angle competition valve jobs? In other words, when does a guy like me, an avid enthusiast, make the decision to spend the $$$ because in my situation there is a real payoff in doing this?

Last edited by Diplomat360; 05/20/19 04:36 PM. Reason: Corrected the wording to clarify my thinking!
Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: Diplomat360] #2657236
05/20/19 01:35 PM
05/20/19 01:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,814
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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More airflow always makes more power, the decision is if it is worth the money for the extra work work
I have ruined one set of 340 X heads trying to increase the installed valve spring heights for a roller cam by cutting the spring seats realcrazy, DO NOT cut the spring seats tsk


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: W2 - valve spring installed height, machine away? [Re: Diplomat360] #2657261
05/20/19 04:10 PM
05/20/19 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,037
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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fast68plymouth  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
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As I said....... the heads are getting new guides....... so recutting the seats would be mandatory(at my shop anyway), and I would use whatever cutter I felt would provide a balance of flow enhancement along with decent durability.

Generally, intakes get 4 angles, exhaust 2 angles and a radius.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a set of new MP heads that I let out the door with the as delivered valve job.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

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