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Flat cam break in oil, again #2653844
05/09/19 08:40 PM
05/09/19 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,390
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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fourgearsavoy  Offline OP
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Rittman Ohio
Getting close to firing my engine with the fresh flat tappet cam and Howard's says to fill the engine with light oil 5-20 or 10-30 non-synthetic oil for break-in. They also want you to use their ZPM break-in lube as well. I have broke-in a few cams in my life but their procedure is new to me. They suggest run it at 2500 for 10 minutes then let it cool down then run it again for another 10 minutes.
I've never used a Howard's cam before, just Comp,Crane, and purple cams. They don't say to remove the inner springs but I always have with solids so I'm going to break-in with just the outer springs.
I'm just guessing here but maybe there is more splash on the cam with a lighter oil shruggy I have EDM lifters and my springs are 145 on the seat and 350 on the nose.
Any thoughts on this procedure? I have never marked my lifters to see if they turn with the cam but I will this time I will while I'm lashing the valves. I usually just make sure they spin when I drop them in the bores.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653854
05/09/19 09:06 PM
05/09/19 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,384
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
tex013  Offline
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Posts: 2,384
Sydney,Australia
Gus ,
Just done this on my new motor
I use Brad Penn break in oil . Its a 30 mineral with Comp additive . 30 minutes , then change it out . Outer springs only . Now have Brad Penn 40 mineral for a couple of weeks , change to BP 20/50 next week before racing 18th

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653860
05/09/19 09:32 PM
05/09/19 09:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,934
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
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San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
I followed this procedure a few years back when installing a Howard's cam and everything turned out OK. I believe that I used Comp's break-in additive with some 10W30 (either Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1 oil, I can't remember which). Removing the inner springs probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Just don't rush things and rev too high too quickly.


"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: 1968RR] #2653881
05/09/19 10:36 PM
05/09/19 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,484
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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So Near, Yet So Far
The last couple of FT BBs I used Lucas in one & Gibbs in the other, left the inner springs in.
Set everything (full bowls, timing) so they started right away, varied the RPM around 1500-2500 for about 20 minutes, watched everything like a hawk of course.
Let 'em cool off, pull oil filter & cut open, replace & refill, run again if I felt I wanted to mess with something.
Zero problems either one, both still running great.
Not huge cams, kinda "hot-street" with about 400# over the nose.
If Howard's has a proprietary additive and you're concerned about their stuff, I'd use it just to avoid an argument if something goes wrong.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653883
05/09/19 10:55 PM
05/09/19 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,691
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
master
mopar dave  Online Content
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Mt Morris Michigan
Brad Penn or Amsoil break in oil. Both are straight 30

Last edited by mopar dave; 05/10/19 10:10 AM.
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653889
05/09/19 11:56 PM
05/09/19 11:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
I ran the light weight oil with good amount of zink in it and I run zink
all the time but less of it.. break it in the way they say to.. the thinner
oil helps.. parts move easier with it.. I did run it for 20 mins
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2653891
05/10/19 12:18 AM
05/10/19 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,897
northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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northwest USA
Thin oil lubricates better and it cools better. So with that 20/50 is about the worst for those 2 things!

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653920
05/10/19 06:39 AM
05/10/19 06:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,338
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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S.E. Michigan
The additive I like to use has these properties:

Zinc: 4898 ppm (4700ppm)
Phosphorus: 4921 ppm (4300ppm)
Calcium: 4279 ppm (7800ppm)

Unfortunately it isn't available any longer over the counter, I'm relying on a stash.... but there are plenty of good ones out there.

Their direction to go for 10 minutes, cool down and another 10 minutes is good.
My last one (a mopar performance hydraulic, everyone's favorite!)
I did between 5 and 7 minute intervals, and did it like 5 or 6 times. As long as you eventually get to the 20+ to 30 minute mark
and keep enough rpm in it for splash and decent lifter rotation you're good. There's a little less stress doing it in smaller time increments.

Oil grade and brand....might as well be politics or religion......
I feel the most confident with sae 30 or 40 single grade but
only because that is all I ever used since my first build, not because I'm a lubrication engineer.

Remember the low end of the multiple viscosity scale (typically 0w, 5w and 10w) is a rating based on viscosity at freezing temperature.
If...during your break in....your ambient temp will be, for instance, 75 degrees, I guarantee the oil will not
be flowing as a 5w or 10W would. It will be somewhere between the low and high end of the scale.

Verify your lifter rotation and oil flow to all the parts before the intake is bolted on....good luck






Rich H.





Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: ZIPPY] #2653925
05/10/19 06:51 AM
05/10/19 06:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,275
Oregon
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earlymopar Offline
pro stock
earlymopar  Offline
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Oregon

"Verify your lifter rotation and oil flow to all the parts before the intake is bolted on"

How would you do this and what would you do to correct things if one or more were not rotating?

- EM

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: earlymopar] #2653931
05/10/19 07:17 AM
05/10/19 07:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,338
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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ZIPPY  Offline
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S.E. Michigan
Mock up with oil only. Put a dot of white or bright colored paint on the top edge of each lifter
Leave the spark plugs out
Turn over with a socket on the crankshaft
Watch the paint marks
No rotation=it's going to be eaten in short order...repair by swapping or replacing lifters
When satisfied with rotation pull the cam out and coat lightly with assembly lube but don't use any on the sides
of the lifters.

Also if you have access to 2-3 sets of lifters, feeler gauges and a surface plate, sometimes it's possible to identify
those with less crown on the face than others and send them back. Less crown usually means less rotation, but it's also relative
to lobe taper as well which is a little more difficult to measure.
I did go through two sets of lifters on the last one, to arrive at one set that I felt had sufficient crown.

Some don't agree with me including a few professionals I respect highly....and that is cool....this is just my own angle on it....


Rich H.





Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653933
05/10/19 07:26 AM
05/10/19 07:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,014
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Funny remark from another BBS: "About oil viscosity numbers: the first number (low temperature) is the time in seconds it takes for oil pressure to reach the last rod bearing. 5W: 5 seconds, 20W: 20 seconds, straight 50: 50 seconds.”
Not science, but the trend is there."


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: polyspheric] #2653971
05/10/19 09:27 AM
05/10/19 09:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,860
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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north of coder
interesting theory poly. has anyone tested this ? could be more truth to this than one imagines.
beer

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: moparx] #2654050
05/10/19 01:25 PM
05/10/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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I used the Joe Gibbs 15/50 break in oil to break in my solid FT. I was also advised to leave in the break in oil for a while (maybe 100 miles), as opposed to draining it immediately. My engine is not new, just new cam and lifters. So far, so good.


2 kids and a dog
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: TonyS451] #2654138
05/10/19 06:48 PM
05/10/19 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Charlotte, North Carolina
I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: sgcuda] #2654141
05/10/19 06:53 PM
05/10/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Michigan
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Get-X Offline
mopar
Get-X  Offline
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Michigan
Originally Posted by sgcuda
I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?



It's always going to need the zinc whether it's in the oil being used or added to the oil without zinc.


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: Get-X] #2654145
05/10/19 07:18 PM
05/10/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,390
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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fourgearsavoy  Offline OP
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Rittman Ohio
So here's my plan, just use 5-30 regular oil to set the lash and make sure the lifters are turning in the bores. Then pull the rockers off and coat the lifters and cam lobes with break-in lube before I put the valley plate cover and intake back on. Next pull the inner springs and re-assemble the valvetrain and get it ready to run. I already have the carb and intake dialed in and idle set at 2300 with the old cam so i know it will run with that deal with only minor adjustments. The only thing I'm actually changing is the cam,lifters,and springs.
I picked up the LSM spring tool and It looks like a nice tool and I cant wait to use it.
I have to work all day tomorrow so I might have to get it together Sunday.
I never had any issues with break in the old way I was just the light oil and 10 minute intervals that had me questioning Howard's instructions but I'm gonna use their guidelines and I should have a good result.

Thanks

Gus beer

LSM.jpg

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: Get-X] #2654201
05/10/19 09:56 PM
05/10/19 09:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted by Get-X
Originally Posted by sgcuda
I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?



It's always going to need the zinc whether it's in the oil being used or added to the oil without zinc.


iagree.. you will be adding zinc however you want to
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2654203
05/10/19 10:19 PM
05/10/19 10:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
You got your plan.. now get her done.. good luck.. you wont have
any problems up
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2654748
05/12/19 07:27 PM
05/12/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 48
Minnesota, USA
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minnesota guy Offline
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Mopar guys--Read up on an Oil blog/site by "540ratguy" Need for a lot of Zinc is a myth. He tested 230 oils and keeps doing tests based on their PSI. He ranks them. The best of the hot rod oils is Joe GIbbs, but only a moderate performer. He is a chevy guy, ugghh, but after taking out 2 cams breaking them in a couple years ago, I went searching. He has 2 sites. One is blogging with questions for him and the other is more details on the ranked oils, zinc discussions, etc...There are 3-4 oils I will ever run now. Mobil 1 0w-40....QS 5w-30 Full synthetic...Amsoil 5w-30 Signature series (the best oil by far he has ever tested today..years ago they were mid pack)……..and other is Valvoline High mileage Full Synthetic 5w-30...…………Most likely never take a cam out with these oils and you do not need to use break in oil first (a crock) or add any zinc....
He shows tests on plenty of oils where break in zinc has been added and ruined the chemistry and wear protection of the oil. He saw 5w-30 oil is all you ever need as long as you have HI-volume oil pump. His testing shows oil runs cooler, does more lubricating and getting back to pan faster.
-He is not sponsored by any oil company.

It is a good read and you make up your own minds! I am breaking in my 493 6 pack FAST motor right now with M-1 0w-40 (it ranked top 5 oils or so on psi testing) and then I am switching to Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 as it ranked #1 by far against any oil...I have never used Amsoil before or even untwisted one of their oil caps..

You should see all the high priced so called racing oils ranking near the bottom. To each is own to decide.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2654828
05/13/19 12:09 AM
05/13/19 12:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 598
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
mopar
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Originally Posted by minnesota guy
Mopar guys--Read up on an Oil blog/site by "540ratguy" Need for a lot of Zinc is a myth. He tested 230 oils and keeps doing tests based on their PSI. He ranks them. The best of the hot rod oils is Joe GIbbs, but only a moderate performer. He is a chevy guy, ugghh, but after taking out 2 cams breaking them in a couple years ago, I went searching. He has 2 sites. One is blogging with questions for him and the other is more details on the ranked oils, zinc discussions, etc...There are 3-4 oils I will ever run now. Mobil 1 0w-40....QS 5w-30 Full synthetic...Amsoil 5w-30 Signature series (the best oil by far he has ever tested today..years ago they were mid pack)……..and other is Valvoline High mileage Full Synthetic 5w-30...…………Most likely never take a cam out with these oils and you do not need to use break in oil first (a crock) or add any zinc....
He shows tests on plenty of oils where break in zinc has been added and ruined the chemistry and wear protection of the oil. He saw 5w-30 oil is all you ever need as long as you have HI-volume oil pump. His testing shows oil runs cooler, does more lubricating and getting back to pan faster.
-He is not sponsored by any oil company.

It is a good read and you make up your own minds! I am breaking in my 493 6 pack FAST motor right now with M-1 0w-40 (it ranked top 5 oils or so on psi testing) and then I am switching to Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 as it ranked #1 by far against any oil...I have never used Amsoil before or even untwisted one of their oil caps..

You should see all the high priced so called racing oils ranking near the bottom. To each is own to decide.


do a google search on the 540rat guy before you trust him blindly...

He even admits that his testing does not simulate what's going on in a running engine.

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