I was googling “vintage Oklahoma drag racing photos” and found this picture. I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this car. Does anyone recognize this Max Wedge? Where is it now? Is it possible that someone knows the VIN of this car? I realize that I have two chances at finding the VIN of this car, slim and none, but I have to at least ask.

I ask because this car has some VERY unique features that I have seen on only one other Max Wedge. But if it is the car I am thinking about, the owner would have had to move to, or sell the car to someone in Minnesota before 1969.

The car I am thinking about starts when a guy buys a stock eliminator Max Wedge car in Minnesota in 1969. He doesn’t remember the name of the seller, but he was told the car came from Oklahoma. It was sitting outside, covered in leaves. The car was cleaned up, some touch-up paint applied, and then a new set of tires were installed. The car ran on the then current record. The new owner was very surprised that a car sitting outside covered in leaves was so fast. The car went on to set records. Someone had previously installed a very powerful engine. Any help on identifying this Cox Motor Co car would be helpful.

I am very familiar with this car. I was the one to first post that photo on the Internet. Very few photos of that car.

It was owned by the late Weldon Christian and driven mostly by his son Steve. The Christians were in Tulsa Oklahoma.

I am thinking they ran this car around 1965. Long time ago but I think they sold it to get a 1966 Steet Hemi to race. In retrospect that was a mistake.

The car came from Dallas, but I don't remember the guys name, he was a transplant from back east. The car had a Bill Jenkins motor in it. It ran very well and they won a lot of races with it.

The car was sold to somebody in Minnesota, they took a white 64 Plymouth Savoy in trade. It was a two door sedan with a street 426 and a four speed.

I have never been able to find a trace of the car since. I don't have the VIN or any paperwork on the car. Although not mine, I am current caretaker of Weldon's photos, paperwork etc related to his race cars.

What more do you know about the car? Do you know where it is and the current owner?

I have attached the only other photo I have of the car.

Bill Lamb
Tulsa, Oklahoma

Here is what I see. The car is in Oklahoma. It is a white 63 Savoy with blue interior. The AA/SA on the side window tells me it is a high compression automatic. Now look at the aluminum hood. It has a hood emblem. The forty cars assembled at the factory didn’t have a hood emblem. Now look at the front fender. There is no Plymouth emblem, but there is a pentastar. The pentastar is in the wrong location. Factory spec is 5 9/16 from the edge of the door, that pentastar is further away than 5 9/16. The factory spec height is 9.5 inches from the very bottom of the fender where it bolts to the body. The pentastar on the car is slightly higher. I know of a car that has all of these unique features. I am just cautious and want to be correct, that’s why I asked for a VIN.

This is all I know to be correct. I would not know about the other details.

Is this saying the was not a factory lightweight and the front end was added later. I know the front end was a lot different that 64 max wedges in that it was much more sturdy.

They may not still be there but one other thing I remember about the car is that it had "police" front spring hangers that moved the front of the spring higher than stock.

I won't be able to do it until later but I will look though the paperwork and see if I can find anything else on the car. However I am not optimistic at all. I have been wanting to know what happened to that car for years. It was the best race car they ever had.

I just remembered one other thing. I saw that car at the Nationals in Indianapolis after Weldon sold it. I don't remember the exact year but it was probably 69 or early 70s. I knew it was the same car because I had installed the tach and it had the same mounting. I don't think it had the stripes on it then but that was a long time ago. The owner was not around so I did not get to talk to him. He must have lost early because I don't remember seeing the car again later in the race.

Are you trying to buy the car?

Glenn Gruber at Cornhusker Raceway Park in 1969. He doesn’t remember the name of the person he bought it from, but the person did say the car was from Oklahoma. It is a white Savoy with a blue interior, high compression, and an automatic. Look at the hood. There is the hood emblem. Now look at the fender. No Plymouth emblem and a pentastar in the wrong location. It is a stretch, but look at the color of the blue stripes on the Cox car, then look at the stripes on the Glenn Gruber car. It looks like some of the stripes on the Cox car remain on Glenn Gruber car. I know Glen and talk to him on occasion. I own the Glenn Gruber car and bought it in 1985. I converted it to a Super Stock car and this is how it looks over the past 34 years.



I have to log off now and get back to work. I hope to talk to you more about this car over the next few days.

I am no expert by any means,but I stayed in a Holiday Express a few times
I remember that there were max wedge packages be it just the heads and intake with exhaust manifolds or the max package with all the aluminum body parts.Can anyone fill in my old shot memory?
I have much respect for the factory appearing and the stock & S/S guys as I can't leave anything stock

Hemi-itis, I am not a Max Wedge expert, I was just born when they came out. But my father had one and I have had two Max Wedge cars over the past 35 years. I have tried to learn as much as I can about the cars during the past 35 years.

My personal opinion is there is far more incorrect information about Max Wedges than correct information. Fortunately, I feel I have one of the best sources of knowledge available on Max Wedge cars. I live two hours from Darrell Davis, and when I am in the Orlando area I stop and visit. I talk to him on the phone frequently. I just talked to him today. My car is in his book, he has all of my information in his file, and I gave him a copy of the IBM card I received from Chrysler Historical.

A total of 50 sets of aluminum were made for the 1963 Plymouths. Forty aluminum cars were assembled at the factory, most were built on Saturdays. The other ten sets of aluminum went to steel nose cars that were currently racing. You had to be someone important to get one of the ten sets of aluminum. It was the same for Dodges, 50 total sets, 40 cars assembled at the factory, and 10 sets for cars currently racing. During the past 35 years, I have heard some wild stories from "experts" about the availability and numbers of aluminum, and I think they are just that, stories.

Bill, when I bought the car, I took the hood emblem off. Aluminum cars did not have a hood emblem from the factory. Also, I didn’t want it to come off and hit the windshield at 140. I still have the emblem. I have been searching and looking at pictures of white 63 Plymouths for more than 20 years.I have looked at possibly one thousand pictures in that time and I have never seen a single hood emblem on an aluminum car until I saw the Cox car. A factory aluminum Savoy would have no hood emblem, and it would have a Plymouth emblem on the fender. It would also have a pentastar in the correct location.

A few weeks ago, I showed a friend of mine, Mark Wilson, a picture of the Cox car. The first thing out of his mouth was “The pentastar is in the wrong place.” I also showed Darrell Davis the picture and the first thing he said was “The pentastar is in the wrong place.” And then he preceded to tell me he knew Billy Cox and his son, and he told me a few stories about them. He looked through his database to see if Billy Cox ever sold a white 63 Savoy, and Cox never sold a white 63 Savoy.

How many Oklahoma white 63 Savoys, with blue interior, with an aluminum front end, high compression, an automatic, an emblem on an aluminum hood, no Plymouth emblem on the fender, and the pentastar in the wrong place went to Minnesota? Bill, you say you are not optimistic about finding the car, but I look at the Cox car and feel a strong possibility it is my car.

Lead head,thanks for that educational reply. I was 5 when they came out but have heard many..........STORIES about 63 & 64 aluminum cars.

I cannot help in your investigation , but please add more info & photos of the latest version of your car now . I am very interested . Thanks Gary

Here is a Chrysler memo with information about 63 Plymouth aluminum. Notice it says the aluminum pieces can't be sold individually. I have another document somewhere that states the 10 extra sets can only be purchased by factory backed cars that are steel nose, or an owner of a factory aluminum car.

Gary, I don't get on forums very often, work, a wife, and three kids take up most of my time. What little free time I have goes to the car. I have just opened a Facebook account and I will be putting pictures there. You should be able to find me by my name on the side of the car. I have more than 100 friends requests from people I don't know, so if you try to add me as a friend, I may not see it. I put a picture from 1989 on Facebook. It is at the 1989 Houston NHRA Supernationals national event. I will also post it here.

Cox Motor company was owned by the late Ray Cox, his son Billy was active in the management. Billy has a son but I don't know his name. The dealership has been closed for quite a while now.

Don Grotheer, who still lives in Oklahoma, had a couple of white 63s, but both of them were manual transmissions. The second one had a aluminium front end but it was the frond end off of Weldon's 64 max wedge that Don changed over to a 63.

Given the circumstances I have no doubt the "Weldon Christian Cox Motors" max wedge is yours.

Where was your car sold new?

The more I think about it I think the guy in Dallas that Weldon bought your car from first name was Bob (Robert?) but I could be all wrong.

Really glad the car has found a good home.

Bill, before we get to the dealership that sold my car, I need to know one more thing to see if Weldon’s car is my car. My car has some special options. Did Weldon Christian’s car have the radio delete option and the heater delete option? My car has both the radio and heater delete options.

You said you changed the tach in the car, so I am going to show some interior pictures. The instrument cluster pad has a lot of holes in it from many tachs being mounted in the car. The tach you see in the picture is the one I installed in 1986 and it is covering up more holes. Also, someone modified the front windshield vent for a mechanical tach drive cable.

The car did not have a tach in it when Weldon got it. I am probably responsible for the two holes to the left of the tach in the photos. No mechanical tach, there was not a tach drive distributor.

While I do not remember 100% I am pretty sure the car was radio and heater delete. This was a very long time ago.

Do you have any photos of the front spring hangers on the car when you got it? There was something unique about those.

Like I said before the car was supposed to have a Bill Jenkins engine in it. I don't recall any markings or anything that would have indicated that but maybe there was something internal. As well as the car ran it was plausible that the Grump had touched it.

Bill

It’s stated that Darrell verified this is a real max wedge car.

It either started out as a steel car or one of the few aluminum cars.

If aluminum - they all had radio and heater delete, battery in the trunk, etc. - that’s the package.

Which is it - aluminum or steel ?

If aluminum why the addition of the pentastar and the hood ornament.

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to this thread but I just wanted to say your car has always been a favorite of mine. The looks, the stance, and wheels up attitude are exceptional. I always wondered why no one else ever put in the time to make a SS/DA max wedge run like yours. 9.7's for the time was mine shaft! Are you going to restore the car or just gathering info? Which ever good luck. I would rather have a Max Wedge over a Hemi any day! Thanks, Rick

Maybe a couple reasons why more original aluminum maxwedge cars don’t race in Super Stock.

NHRA mandates that you must use aluminum body panels to race as an aluminum car. No glass allowed
The other reason is obvious - their value in original condition. No one wants to cut up an original aluminum car.
Another brain fart from NHRA, you can run aluminum heads, aftermarket bucket seats, a Ford axle but you can’t run fiberglass in place of aluminum.

Darrel Davis does not verify cars or offer a verification service. My car’s VIN is listed in his 1963 Plymouth Max Wedge book. It also lists the options that were on the car, the selling dealer, and the shipping date. I know Darrel, he has put my name in his personal database as the current owner. I have a copy of the IBM card from Chrysler Historical and I sent him a copy. He has held the actual IBM card for my car in his hand. That’s how he wrote the book, he went through all of the IBM cards.

The original selling dealer of my car is Fretwell Motors, in Oklahoma City, OK. From looking at the IBM card, Darrel says the car was a sold car. Fretwell did not order the car for stock, someone went into Fretwell and ordered the car with its specific colors and options. The shipping date on the car is 12/31/62. So it is an original steel nose, battery in front car. It is an automatic, high compression, with heater and radio delete. There was no pentastar on Plymouth cars on 12/31/62. Pentastars arrived approximately on February 5, 1963. Chrysler offered a pentastar to older cars, and it was part number 2495798, and it was free.

I have talked to Glenn Gruber many times, the last time was about four months ago. He is fine and owns a bowling alley in St Paul. He knows the car is an original steel nose car. He told me the car had received one of the ten sets of extra aluminum. I asked him how he knew that information. He said “Because of the hood emblem.” He asked Chrysler why his car had a hood emblem and the other aluminum cars did not. Chrysler did some research and then told him the car had received one of the extra sets of aluminum, and gave him the specific date of installation, but now he doesn’t remember the specific date. But it was in the first half of the year of 1963, then he said between March and May.

Chrysler said the aluminum came in primer and there were no emblems on the aluminum. Someone transferred the Plymouth letters from the steel hood to the aluminum hood. And the person must have also transferred the hood emblem, but the person should not have transferred the hood emblem. The person must have had a pentastar and installed it in the wrong location. Chrysler told him to remove the hood emblem.

Glenn said he then started looking for the ten cars that received the extra aluminum. He found two or three, but now can’t remember the names. He did well enough with the 63 Plymouth that Chrysler set him up with a 1965 Plymouth A990 car in 1971. That became the Gruber and Kasse car. Glenn sold the 63 Plymouth in 1971 to Roy Dean, and stopped researching the aluminum Max Wedge cars.

Since Fretwell’s was in Oklahoma City, someone told me to call Don Grotheer and ask if he knows anything about the car. I was given his cell phone number and called and left a message, but I haven't received a return call.

Wow, it susprises me that the car came out of Oklahoma City. Don ran out of Cable Chrysler Plymouth, but hopefully he will remember it.

As mentioned Don had a couple of white 63s but they were manual shift.

Bill

No, after I bought it, I took it to Chick DeNinno to install a Super Stock legal chassis and four link. The springs and hangers would have been thrown away by him. Approximately five people owned the car between Weldon Christian and me, so it may have not been there anyway.

Before I bought the car in 1985, I was told by various Max Wedge racers that it was an original aluminum car. When I arrived to look at the car, I could see it was an original factory Max Wedge, but I immediately knew it was not an original aluminum car. It did not have the items I look for in the trunk for a factory trunk mount battery. Though slightly disappointed, I bought the car anyway. The car had no engine, transmission, or center section. The owner, Roy Dean (the son), had a steel nose 63 Plymouth wagon running B/SA or C/SA next to the Savoy. He had taken those items out of the Savoy and had put them in the wagon. Maybe the spring hangers were also swapped to the wagon.

If you have made it to this post, you have read my reply to Transman. The car had a hood ornament because the car received a set of the extra aluminum. The installer moved the hood ornament from the steel hood to the aluminum when he shouldn't have installed it. That what makes the car so unique. Then add in a pentastar was added in the wrong place, both cars are white, with blue interior, high compression, automatic, and Weldon Christian's car went to Minnesota, and then Glenn Grubber bought the car in Minnesota, make me believe without a doubt, as of now, Weldon Christian's car is my car.

I have googled Weldon Christian and he and Steve had an amazing collection of mopars in the 1960's, I am impressed! I still want to find the history of the original buyer. You said the car was in Dallas, and Oklahoma City isn't very far from Dallas. Here is the only picture of Fretwell's I could find.

This is the best reason. NHRA mandates an aluminum hood and both fenders as a minimum. In 35 years, I have never seen a set of 63 Plymouth aluminum for sale. I have seen one fender for sale one or two times. I have heard about a few sets sold through private sales in the past.
Also, the heads are hard to find, the horsepower factor is not soft, and you will need to have a custom sheet metal intake made.

I will never restore the car. Max Wedges were designed to be a race car, and my car has been a race car from day one. It only has 237 miles on the odometer and I am sure that is because the speedometer was connected when it was first raced.

I want to race it again, but I don't seem to have any free time. I just removed the wiring I installed in 1985/1986 and rewired the car with TXL wiring. I also installed new battery cable and a new master disconnect switch. It took three months. Even when I could only work an hour on the car, afterwords, I was happy, in a good mood, and felt a natural high.

I also have a block at the machine shop. All of my 1980's and 1990's blocks where bored on a Kwik Way, decked on a Storm Vulcan 85, and lifter bushings installed using BHJ lifter bore fixtures. I have had several of those blocks put in a Rottler F69A and they would not qualify. The bore centers and angle of the bores, and lifter locations were so far off it could not be corrected for my application. I finally gave the machine shop a block that would pass qualifying. It should be finished in the next few weeks.

Yes, I know Darrell does not do verification but I was confused where the post was going as it seemed we (I) didn’t know if it was a steel or aluminum car.

Thanks for the update that it was a steel car to start.

As for the loose front end parts my brother had a new set of fenders and they were not in prime.
I sure wish he would have kept those babies.

I have an original 63 aluminum Plymouth, I know the ownership history from 1963 to now.

I have thought about running it again but haven’t gathered up the courage yet to risk the front end.

I love the look of your ride and the color to boot.

I sent you a PM regarding your block dilemma.

Bill, or anyone else, do you recognize this car or the track? I found this picture several years ago and have showed it to some Max Wedge racers, but nobody has identified it. I can’t read the lettering on the door.

It is a white Savoy with an aluminum front end in primer. The print date can be seen at the bottom of the photo and is May 63. But we don’t know how long the film was in the camera before it was developed. The actual date the picture was taken could be March or April of 63.

There are no emblems on the aluminum, and there isn’t the Plymouth letters across the front of the hood. It is as if someone put aluminum on their car and went straight to the track. Could this track be in Texas or Oklahoma?

While I don't recognize the track it certainly could be in Oklahoma, Texas or Kansas.

My guess is that it was an old WW II training/emergency air strip. This is because of the lights on the right side of the photo and the stripe on the concrete.

I first thought perhaps Cushing Oklahoma or Arkansas City Kansas but the terrain is flatter than what is shown in this photo.

Good chance this could be your car, but also a good chance one of the other ten with the front end replacements were white.

Has Don called you back yet? He had some serious health issues a few years back but from what I have heard lately he is doing well.

Bill

Nothing to add......... but this is a cool thread.

Mike,
I talked to Steve Christian today.

He was able to verify that the car was a radio/heater delete. He also said that they guy they bought it from in Dallas was originally from Oklahoma City.

He also thinks they guy they bought it from first name was Bob, after thinking about it a bit he thought it was Bob Richardson. That name sounded right to me also.

He said before I mentioned it that the aluminum front end had been added to the car later.

He said they car was pretty rough when they got it. He said "Bob" was living in an apartment in Dallas when they got it and it was parked outside. He had no place to store or work on it and that was one of the reasons he wanted to sell it.

I think we have tied up most of the loose ends.

Is there anything else you would like to know?

Bill

Bill, I have not heard from Don Grotheer, I called his cell and line line and left messages.

I do want to thank you for the help and information you have provided. It is a relief to find another piece of the puzzle. I will continue looking for information on the 63 Savoy with aluminum in primer. I will continue to look for the original owner. Bob may have been the original owner, but then how did he get the aluminum? I don’t remember a factory driver named Bob Richardson.

If you or Steve remember the name of the person the car was traded to in Minnesota, I would like to know. If you want, you can PM me your contact information, and I will call. That way if you remember anything later you can call me. Or you can use this thread. Thanks again for the help.

Its been fun, i was really glad to know where the car is now.

As of right now no one remembers the guys name in Minnesota.

I will send you a PM with my contact info.

Bill

Enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting!

Here is a quick update. My 34 year search is over. I talked to Don Grotheer many times the past few days. I asked him if he knew of a white Savoy Max Wedge, blue interior, high compression, with radio and heater delete, that was sold by Fretwell’s in Oklahoma City the first or second week of January 1963. He immediately knew my car. He said a person named Bob Nelson had ordered the car from Fretwell’s. He said Bob was from the Northeast, then said maybe New York. He said Bob knew Bill Jenkins and bought a Max Wedge engine from Bill Jenkins.

The aluminum on my car came off of Don Grotheer’s black 63 Belvedere. I told Don I though the black car was only a steel front end, and never had aluminum. He said for a very short period of time the black Belvedere did have aluminum. He received one of the 10 sets of extra aluminum front ends in the early part of 63. It came through Sparks Motors in Cushing Ok. It came from Chrysler in primer. He installed the aluminum on his car. I asked if he installed a hood emblem on the aluminum hood. Don said he transferred the hood emblem off of his steel hood onto the aluminum hood. Bob Nelson then bought the aluminum front end from Don. I asked Don when did that happen, and he said before mid year. I asked why he sold the aluminum front end. He said for the money, and he knew what was coming in 1964, and the 63 wedge would not be competitive against that engine!

I emailed him many pictures of my car, and I also emailed the picture of the white Savoy with an aluminum nose in primer, with a print date of May 63, that I posted earlier in this thread. The next time I talked to him on the phone, he said that was probably my car. He said the track was an abandoned airstrip. He said it might have been in Southern Oklahoma, but most probably was in North Texas. He said Bob raced often at Caddo Mills, an abandoned airstrip, and Wichita Falls. Don said the print date would be the correct time frame. He said there were no other white Plymouths in the area with aluminum other than Bob. He said since the aluminum was black, Bob would have had to primer the aluminum to paint it white. Don also said the belt holding the hood down was what he used on his black car. Don did not want to drill the aluminum hood for hood pins.

Don sent me four pictures of the black 63 Belvedere with aluminum, three of which I will add to this post. I don’t think these pictures have ever been put online. Don did say I could post the pictures.

Searching for the history of my car has been a great journey, and it feels a little strange to realize it is over. Moparts.com has been a big help in finding the history and again I want to thank Bill for his help.

I was glad to help. I very much enjoyed learning the full history of the car from before I knew it and then after.

Bill

This thread is full of awesome!

One of the TEN sets went on to the Milne Bro's Plymouth Pasadena 63 Belvedere that has been in Australia since Nov 64.

How cool is that? Congrats to you for staying on the trail and getting to the end of it.