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Flat cam break in oil, again #2653844
05/09/19 09:40 PM
05/09/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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Getting close to firing my engine with the fresh flat tappet cam and Howard's says to fill the engine with light oil 5-20 or 10-30 non-synthetic oil for break-in. They also want you to use their ZPM break-in lube as well. I have broke-in a few cams in my life but their procedure is new to me. They suggest run it at 2500 for 10 minutes then let it cool down then run it again for another 10 minutes.
I've never used a Howard's cam before, just Comp,Crane, and purple cams. They don't say to remove the inner springs but I always have with solids so I'm going to break-in with just the outer springs.
I'm just guessing here but maybe there is more splash on the cam with a lighter oil shruggy I have EDM lifters and my springs are 145 on the seat and 350 on the nose.
Any thoughts on this procedure? I have never marked my lifters to see if they turn with the cam but I will this time I will while I'm lashing the valves. I usually just make sure they spin when I drop them in the bores.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653854
05/09/19 10:06 PM
05/09/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Gus ,
Just done this on my new motor
I use Brad Penn break in oil . Its a 30 mineral with Comp additive . 30 minutes , then change it out . Outer springs only . Now have Brad Penn 40 mineral for a couple of weeks , change to BP 20/50 next week before racing 18th

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653860
05/09/19 10:32 PM
05/09/19 10:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
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I followed this procedure a few years back when installing a Howard's cam and everything turned out OK. I believe that I used Comp's break-in additive with some 10W30 (either Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1 oil, I can't remember which). Removing the inner springs probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Just don't rush things and rev too high too quickly.


"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: 1968RR] #2653881
05/09/19 11:36 PM
05/09/19 11:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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The last couple of FT BBs I used Lucas in one & Gibbs in the other, left the inner springs in.
Set everything (full bowls, timing) so they started right away, varied the RPM around 1500-2500 for about 20 minutes, watched everything like a hawk of course.
Let 'em cool off, pull oil filter & cut open, replace & refill, run again if I felt I wanted to mess with something.
Zero problems either one, both still running great.
Not huge cams, kinda "hot-street" with about 400# over the nose.
If Howard's has a proprietary additive and you're concerned about their stuff, I'd use it just to avoid an argument if something goes wrong.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653883
05/09/19 11:55 PM
05/09/19 11:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,027
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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Brad Penn or Amsoil break in oil. Both are straight 30

Last edited by mopar dave; 05/10/19 11:10 AM.
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653889
05/10/19 12:56 AM
05/10/19 12:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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I ran the light weight oil with good amount of zink in it and I run zink
all the time but less of it.. break it in the way they say to.. the thinner
oil helps.. parts move easier with it.. I did run it for 20 mins
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2653891
05/10/19 01:18 AM
05/10/19 01:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951
northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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Thin oil lubricates better and it cools better. So with that 20/50 is about the worst for those 2 things!

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653920
05/10/19 07:39 AM
05/10/19 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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The additive I like to use has these properties:

Zinc: 4898 ppm (4700ppm)
Phosphorus: 4921 ppm (4300ppm)
Calcium: 4279 ppm (7800ppm)

Unfortunately it isn't available any longer over the counter, I'm relying on a stash.... but there are plenty of good ones out there.

Their direction to go for 10 minutes, cool down and another 10 minutes is good.
My last one (a mopar performance hydraulic, everyone's favorite!)
I did between 5 and 7 minute intervals, and did it like 5 or 6 times. As long as you eventually get to the 20+ to 30 minute mark
and keep enough rpm in it for splash and decent lifter rotation you're good. There's a little less stress doing it in smaller time increments.

Oil grade and brand....might as well be politics or religion......
I feel the most confident with sae 30 or 40 single grade but
only because that is all I ever used since my first build, not because I'm a lubrication engineer.

Remember the low end of the multiple viscosity scale (typically 0w, 5w and 10w) is a rating based on viscosity at freezing temperature.
If...during your break in....your ambient temp will be, for instance, 75 degrees, I guarantee the oil will not
be flowing as a 5w or 10W would. It will be somewhere between the low and high end of the scale.

Verify your lifter rotation and oil flow to all the parts before the intake is bolted on....good luck






Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: ZIPPY] #2653925
05/10/19 07:51 AM
05/10/19 07:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,331
Oregon
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earlymopar Offline
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"Verify your lifter rotation and oil flow to all the parts before the intake is bolted on"

How would you do this and what would you do to correct things if one or more were not rotating?

- EM

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: earlymopar] #2653931
05/10/19 08:17 AM
05/10/19 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Mock up with oil only. Put a dot of white or bright colored paint on the top edge of each lifter
Leave the spark plugs out
Turn over with a socket on the crankshaft
Watch the paint marks
No rotation=it's going to be eaten in short order...repair by swapping or replacing lifters
When satisfied with rotation pull the cam out and coat lightly with assembly lube but don't use any on the sides
of the lifters.

Also if you have access to 2-3 sets of lifters, feeler gauges and a surface plate, sometimes it's possible to identify
those with less crown on the face than others and send them back. Less crown usually means less rotation, but it's also relative
to lobe taper as well which is a little more difficult to measure.
I did go through two sets of lifters on the last one, to arrive at one set that I felt had sufficient crown.

Some don't agree with me including a few professionals I respect highly....and that is cool....this is just my own angle on it....


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2653933
05/10/19 08:26 AM
05/10/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Funny remark from another BBS: "About oil viscosity numbers: the first number (low temperature) is the time in seconds it takes for oil pressure to reach the last rod bearing. 5W: 5 seconds, 20W: 20 seconds, straight 50: 50 seconds.”
Not science, but the trend is there."


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: polyspheric] #2653971
05/10/19 10:27 AM
05/10/19 10:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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interesting theory poly. has anyone tested this ? could be more truth to this than one imagines.
beer

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: moparx] #2654050
05/10/19 02:25 PM
05/10/19 02:25 PM
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Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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I used the Joe Gibbs 15/50 break in oil to break in my solid FT. I was also advised to leave in the break in oil for a while (maybe 100 miles), as opposed to draining it immediately. My engine is not new, just new cam and lifters. So far, so good.


2 kids and a dog
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: TonyS451] #2654138
05/10/19 07:48 PM
05/10/19 07:48 PM
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Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: sgcuda] #2654141
05/10/19 07:53 PM
05/10/19 07:53 PM
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Michigan
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Get-X Offline
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Originally Posted by sgcuda
I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?



It's always going to need the zinc whether it's in the oil being used or added to the oil without zinc.


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: Get-X] #2654145
05/10/19 08:18 PM
05/10/19 08:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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So here's my plan, just use 5-30 regular oil to set the lash and make sure the lifters are turning in the bores. Then pull the rockers off and coat the lifters and cam lobes with break-in lube before I put the valley plate cover and intake back on. Next pull the inner springs and re-assemble the valvetrain and get it ready to run. I already have the carb and intake dialed in and idle set at 2300 with the old cam so i know it will run with that deal with only minor adjustments. The only thing I'm actually changing is the cam,lifters,and springs.
I picked up the LSM spring tool and It looks like a nice tool and I cant wait to use it.
I have to work all day tomorrow so I might have to get it together Sunday.
I never had any issues with break in the old way I was just the light oil and 10 minute intervals that had me questioning Howard's instructions but I'm gonna use their guidelines and I should have a good result.

Thanks

Gus beer

LSM.jpg

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: Get-X] #2654201
05/10/19 10:56 PM
05/10/19 10:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted by Get-X
Originally Posted by sgcuda
I am used to running rollers, but I am building a hydraulic cam motor for a friend. Are you supposed to always use zinc additive after break in? After the first 1,000 miles or so, is it ok just to run a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec without zinc additive?



It's always going to need the zinc whether it's in the oil being used or added to the oil without zinc.


iagree.. you will be adding zinc however you want to
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2654203
05/10/19 11:19 PM
05/10/19 11:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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You got your plan.. now get her done.. good luck.. you wont have
any problems up
wave

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2654748
05/12/19 08:27 PM
05/12/19 08:27 PM
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Posts: 48
Minnesota, USA
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minnesota guy Offline
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Mopar guys--Read up on an Oil blog/site by "540ratguy" Need for a lot of Zinc is a myth. He tested 230 oils and keeps doing tests based on their PSI. He ranks them. The best of the hot rod oils is Joe GIbbs, but only a moderate performer. He is a chevy guy, ugghh, but after taking out 2 cams breaking them in a couple years ago, I went searching. He has 2 sites. One is blogging with questions for him and the other is more details on the ranked oils, zinc discussions, etc...There are 3-4 oils I will ever run now. Mobil 1 0w-40....QS 5w-30 Full synthetic...Amsoil 5w-30 Signature series (the best oil by far he has ever tested today..years ago they were mid pack)……..and other is Valvoline High mileage Full Synthetic 5w-30...…………Most likely never take a cam out with these oils and you do not need to use break in oil first (a crock) or add any zinc....
He shows tests on plenty of oils where break in zinc has been added and ruined the chemistry and wear protection of the oil. He saw 5w-30 oil is all you ever need as long as you have HI-volume oil pump. His testing shows oil runs cooler, does more lubricating and getting back to pan faster.
-He is not sponsored by any oil company.

It is a good read and you make up your own minds! I am breaking in my 493 6 pack FAST motor right now with M-1 0w-40 (it ranked top 5 oils or so on psi testing) and then I am switching to Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 as it ranked #1 by far against any oil...I have never used Amsoil before or even untwisted one of their oil caps..

You should see all the high priced so called racing oils ranking near the bottom. To each is own to decide.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2654828
05/13/19 01:09 AM
05/13/19 01:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
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Originally Posted by minnesota guy
Mopar guys--Read up on an Oil blog/site by "540ratguy" Need for a lot of Zinc is a myth. He tested 230 oils and keeps doing tests based on their PSI. He ranks them. The best of the hot rod oils is Joe GIbbs, but only a moderate performer. He is a chevy guy, ugghh, but after taking out 2 cams breaking them in a couple years ago, I went searching. He has 2 sites. One is blogging with questions for him and the other is more details on the ranked oils, zinc discussions, etc...There are 3-4 oils I will ever run now. Mobil 1 0w-40....QS 5w-30 Full synthetic...Amsoil 5w-30 Signature series (the best oil by far he has ever tested today..years ago they were mid pack)……..and other is Valvoline High mileage Full Synthetic 5w-30...…………Most likely never take a cam out with these oils and you do not need to use break in oil first (a crock) or add any zinc....
He shows tests on plenty of oils where break in zinc has been added and ruined the chemistry and wear protection of the oil. He saw 5w-30 oil is all you ever need as long as you have HI-volume oil pump. His testing shows oil runs cooler, does more lubricating and getting back to pan faster.
-He is not sponsored by any oil company.

It is a good read and you make up your own minds! I am breaking in my 493 6 pack FAST motor right now with M-1 0w-40 (it ranked top 5 oils or so on psi testing) and then I am switching to Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 as it ranked #1 by far against any oil...I have never used Amsoil before or even untwisted one of their oil caps..

You should see all the high priced so called racing oils ranking near the bottom. To each is own to decide.


do a google search on the 540rat guy before you trust him blindly...

He even admits that his testing does not simulate what's going on in a running engine.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: DGS] #2654846
05/13/19 06:59 AM
05/13/19 06:59 AM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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One thing to remember is that synthetic oils prevent wear. Which means it will deter wear on surfaces that require break in. I worked for Mobil for 18 years. It was never recommended for break in purposes. I would run a regular high quality oil with zinc additive for first 500 miles or so. Maybe even for follow up oil change, before I would switch over to synthetic oil.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: polyspheric] #2654853
05/13/19 07:32 AM
05/13/19 07:32 AM
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Funny remark from another BBS: "About oil viscosity numbers: the first number (low temperature) is the time in seconds it takes for oil pressure to reach the last rod bearing. 5W: 5 seconds, 20W: 20 seconds, straight 50: 50 seconds.”
Not science, but the trend is there."


Even 5 seconds is a long time. That's why priming the pump with a drill should be considered as part of the break-in process..

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: DGS] #2654868
05/13/19 08:26 AM
05/13/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
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San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
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Originally Posted by DGS
do a google search on the 540rat guy before you trust him blindly...

He even admits that his testing does not simulate what's going on in a running engine.

Yep. The dude's a "Mechanical Engineer" (which is evidently a proper noun), not a tribologist. Take what he says with a grain of salt. Regardless of what he says, ZDDP is a good oil additive and oils with high ZDDP-content should be used during engine and cam break-in. Years ago, we ran some tests to see how much ZDDP some commonly-used oils had in them. The results are posted here.


"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: 1968RR] #2654898
05/13/19 09:39 AM
05/13/19 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Originally Posted by 1968RR
Originally Posted by DGS
do a google search on the 540rat guy before you trust him blindly...

He even admits that his testing does not simulate what's going on in a running engine.

Yep. The dude's a "Mechanical Engineer" (which is evidently a proper noun), not a tribologist. Take what he says with a grain of salt. Regardless of what he says, ZDDP is a good oil additive and oils with high ZDDP-content should be used during engine and cam break-in. Years ago, we ran some tests to see how much ZDDP some commonly-used oils had in them. The results are posted here.


That's an older list so a lot of those levels might be less now depending on the intended application of the oil.

The best way to KNOW what the zinc and phosphorus levels are in a particular oil is to buy a quart and head down to the nearest Kenworth type dealer, buy an oil sample kit and pour some oil in it and send it off. Costs about $25 +/-.

Bobistheoilguy is a good site to look at new and used oil analysis reports. Most of the 15w40 diesel oils are still in the 1000 ppm range on both. The 5w40 diesel synthetics seem to have closer to 1100 ppm than the conventional oils on reports I've seen which I found a little odd.

Kevin

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: DGS] #2655006
05/13/19 02:53 PM
05/13/19 02:53 PM
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Minnesota, USA
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minnesota guy Offline
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When you say "blindly" you are taking just as strong position in the other direction. I have reviewed him for 2 years and have seen plenty of criticism/and positivity...and I think He knows his stuff. But that is not the point her. That is why I said to consider it and research it, but just because other sites may bad mouth him, does not make him more/less credible.

I find his rankings of oils intriguing and I had issues with Royal Purple and cams as what led me to start looking into this a few years back. I am not selling anything, but merely stating it is "worth a read" at the 540ratguy blog and oil rankings.

Just because you said: " Regardless of what he says, ZDDP is a good oil additive and oils with high ZDDP-content should be used during engine and cam break-in" That unfortunately does not make it so in the other direction. His PSI test shows that when you add ZDDP to some oils it wrecks them and makes them worthless. Some oils with a high amount of Zinc performed well on his list.

You went to great efforts to dog him but not disproven his testing procedures. Again I say an interesting read for those interested in engine oil from a guy doing some exgensive testing and just reporting what he finds.

Thanks

Last edited by minnesota guy; 05/13/19 03:02 PM.
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2655014
05/13/19 03:06 PM
05/13/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
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Originally Posted by minnesota guy
When you say "blindly" you are taking just as strong position in the other direction. I have reviewed him for 2 years and have seen plenty of criticism/and positivity...and I think He knows his stuff. But that is not the point her. That is why I said to consider it and research it, but just because other sites may bad mouth him, does not make him more/less credible.

I find his rankings of oils intriguing and I had issues with Royal Purple and cams as what led me to start looking into this a few years back. I am not selling anything, but merely stating it is "worth a read" at the 540ratguy blog and oil rankings.


Some of what the guy says is true, some of it is garbage. As I've said before, the main two issues that I have with his tests and results are:

1. He doesn't provide any uncertainties anywhere. Seriously, numbers without uncertainties are meaningless. If you don't believe me, I'll sell you my 100,000,000 hp 2002 Ram for $100,000 cash (note: +/- 99,999,775 hp). You never know, it could have 199,999,775 hp and be a good deal...

2. The other problem is this statement:
"The ppm (parts per million) quantities of zinc, phosphorus, moly and in some cases titanium, shown in the ranking list below, are taken directly from the Lab Reports that came back from the Professional Lab 'ALS Tribology' in Sparks, Nevada. Some oils have MORE ZINC than phosphorus, while other oils have MORE PHOSPHORUS than zinc. It just depends on the particular oil's formulation. Either way, the numbers below are correct and are NOT typos."
The ppm data are mass fractions. Because zinc is ONLY added to oils in the form of ZDDPs (while the phosphorus in oils can be from a variety of molecules) and because ZDDPs always have a 2:1 phosphorus atom to zinc atom ratio, the phosphorus to zinc ppm ratios should never be less than [(30.97*2)/65.39]=0.947. It's pretty basic chemistry. If you take a look at his measurements for "5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic," for example, you can see that the ratio is 1496/1610=0.929. What does this mean? That his data (or the data that he got from ALS Tribology) has some really high uncertainties.


"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: 1968RR] #2655053
05/13/19 04:49 PM
05/13/19 04:49 PM
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Minnesota, USA
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minnesota guy Offline
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You could ask him. He responds to questions. I think the PSI testing he does of the oils is fascinating and shows how oils lubricate under pressure. Regardless, I am going to switch to Amsoil 5w-30 signature Series oils in all my Mopar's.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2655114
05/13/19 07:39 PM
05/13/19 07:39 PM
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Florida
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Originally Posted by minnesota guy
You could ask him. He responds to questions. I think the PSI testing he does of the oils is fascinating and shows how oils lubricate under pressure. Regardless, I am going to switch to Amsoil 5w-30 signature Series oils in all my Mopar's.


Have you been able to find any ZDDP numbers for Amsoil Signature Series oils? Their Dominator, Z-Rod & others have high ZDDP content, but I've been under the impression that their Signature Series have considerably less because it's designed for newer vehicles with catalytic converters. Coincidentally, many have roller cams as well. Zinc & phosphorous have a negative affect on catalytic converter systems.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: Locomotion] #2655728
05/15/19 03:55 PM
05/15/19 03:55 PM
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Minnesota, USA
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minnesota guy Offline
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Exactly. It is harmful to converters and he warns about that. He also discusses use of Zinc and all the myths and hype it brings. He tested a lot of oils adding zinc and it made the oil a lot less effective. He will recommend you use for example--the Valvoline Hi Mileage full synthetic 5w-30 over their Valvoline racing oil with more zinc, etc...I have asked him things on his blog and will get back to you within hours typically Just be nice when asking the question Ask him if he has the specs..... A lot of people have gone there to fight with him and he talks about that in his dissertation. 5 quarts of Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 is think is 44.00 at my local auto parts store. He says if you use oils on his top 10 list you won't take out a cam.
I am done...Oil discussion can be tough crowd to work with! .I only mentioned this originally for guys interested in oil like I am.

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2655735
05/15/19 04:14 PM
05/15/19 04:14 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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an8sec70cuda  Offline
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My flat tappet engines get broken in on Valvoline VR1 and a bottle of the Comp Cams break-in additive. After that they just get Valvoline VR1. No problems yet.


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'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
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'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
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'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
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Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2655765
05/15/19 06:24 PM
05/15/19 06:24 PM
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Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Zippy's rotation test is a must or you are eolling the dice. BUT, if you find a lifter not rotating, put some 500 grit sandpaper in your palm, push the offending lifter base against it and rotate till the shine is gone. Clean, retest. Never lost one yet. This tip came from an engine builder that also raced top alcohol for decades.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: minnesota guy] #2655863
05/15/19 10:41 PM
05/15/19 10:41 PM
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Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
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Originally Posted by minnesota guy
Exactly. It is harmful to converters and he warns about that. He also discusses use of Zinc and all the myths and hype it brings. He tested a lot of oils adding zinc and it made the oil a lot less effective. He will recommend you use for example--the Valvoline Hi Mileage full synthetic 5w-30 over their Valvoline racing oil with more zinc, etc...I have asked him things on his blog and will get back to you within hours typically Just be nice when asking the question Ask him if he has the specs..... A lot of people have gone there to fight with him and he talks about that in his dissertation. 5 quarts of Amsoil Signature series 5w-30 is think is 44.00 at my local auto parts store. He says if you use oils on his top 10 list you won't take out a cam.
I am done...Oil discussion can be tough crowd to work with! .I only mentioned this originally for guys interested in oil like I am.


Not sure if this is directed at me or not...either way, I'm not trying to be difficult (and I'm genuinely sorry if I came across that way). Like I said - the guy has some good information on his site, and it is definitely worth a look. Even still, some of his advice should be taken with a grain of salt. ZDDP is a proven, effective anti-wear agent. It is beneficial up until around 1800 - 2000 ppm, at which point it can start to cause corrosion inhibitors to become less efficient.
If you're interested in oil, you should check out some (peer-reviewed) tribology articles on the subject, some of which are open-access and can be found via Google Scholar searches.


"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2657376
05/20/19 11:07 PM
05/20/19 11:07 PM
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
My flat tappet engines get broken in on Valvoline VR1 and a bottle of the Comp Cams break-in additive. After that they just get Valvoline VR1. No problems yet.



Same hear as that's just what I do and have always done. Never had a cam wipe on me yet and have always run flat tappet cams. Ron

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: gregsdart] #2657378
05/20/19 11:09 PM
05/20/19 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Balt. Md
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Zippy's rotation test is a must or you are eolling the dice. BUT, if you find a lifter not rotating, put some 500 grit sandpaper in your palm, push the offending lifter base against it and rotate till the shine is gone. Clean, retest. Never lost one yet. This tip came from an engine builder that also raced top alcohol for decades.


Oh yea I always make sure my lifters rotate. Good advice from Zippy. Ron

Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: 383man] #2657739
05/21/19 08:30 PM
05/21/19 08:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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fourgearsavoy  Offline OP
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Rittman Ohio
Originally Posted by 383man
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Zippy's rotation test is a must or you are eolling the dice. BUT, if you find a lifter not rotating, put some 500 grit sandpaper in your palm, push the offending lifter base against it and rotate till the shine is gone. Clean, retest. Never lost one yet. This tip came from an engine builder that also raced top alcohol for decades.


Oh yea I always make sure my lifters rotate. Good advice from Zippy. Ron


I always make sure my lifters are smooth in the bores but I never really watched them rotate while the cam was working them. Tomorrow I'm going to stab the cam in and check the centerline then lash the valves. I'm going to mark them and make sure they turn while I set the lash. My last cam was the only one I ever lost and from what I've read on here my old springs were to firm. So I went with the springs recommended by Howard's tech line support and I'm following their break in procedure to the letter with their break in lube.
I want to be ready for the NSS race at Dragway 42 fathers day weekend thumbs

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Re: Flat cam break in oil, again [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2657785
05/21/19 10:35 PM
05/21/19 10:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Just some thoughts?

540rat has made some very questionable statements on the SCTA site, and "mechanical engineer" also includes people who design poured concrete dams.

Does anyone here believe that the gauge pressure reflects the condition at every journal in the engine? Crank journals receive (something like) gauge pressure, but it's multiplied perhaps 5 to 10 times by journal rotation (the hydrodynamic wedge) - larger journal have more local oil pressure than smaller in direct proportion to their OD: a 3.000" main is 20% higher than a 2.500". "Dipper" rods (lawn mowers, older automotive, pre-1953 Chevy L6) have NO oil pressure. The low rubbing speed of a cam lobe vs. tappet makes this factor very small...

Difficult to do but interesting to contemplate:
The lifter gallery is most commonly fed in line with a gang drill. What if the entry to each tappet bore was instead tangential (intersecting the circumference, not aimed at the center) to the tappet OD, and the tappet body has small curved directional recesses? Every time the tappet was unloaded, the oil pressure would tend to rotate it. Loose lash during break-in would insure rotation...


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