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Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: 70moparmike] #2622915
02/18/19 02:36 PM
02/18/19 02:36 PM
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Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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Looks like its down to three options; hammer in clearance to the pan, modify engine location within the engine bay through motors mounts or mounting pad relocation, finally, swap steering parts until you find a compatible combination of dimensions.

Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: TC@HP2] #2635736
03/22/19 11:07 PM
03/22/19 11:07 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 259
n.c.
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Originally Posted by TC@HP2


Alignment of the steering linkage itself could also be a factor. I have found numerous Mopars over the years that had shims behind the steering box where it bolts to the K. You can alter the plane the linkage operates in by shimming the box to move this plane up or down. There also is the possibility of idler arm and its bushings not duplicating factory position, or the bushing is worn/bad and allow unwanted motion, or its specific mounting location is just slightly off. Or, in the case of ultimate tolerance stack up, a little bit of everything above is off, just a hair, but add them all together and now something hits.

Personally, I'd much rather install a 1/4" shim into an motor mount or try moving some other pieces of the puzzle around to create the necessary clearance before I'd hammer on a $400 oil pan.


Don't shim or remove shims from steering box without checking bump steer, this will change things.

One of the gm suspension gurus used to reccommend limiting steering travel on road race f bodies.
He pointed out that for track use giving up a little travel was worth gaining oil pan, header, and tire/fender clearance.
I think he welded stops to the crossmember, might be a way to do this on your car.

Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: 70moparmike] #2652863
05/07/19 08:33 AM
05/07/19 08:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 294
indy
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found a answer. can someone tell me if it will hurt to use the quick ratio idler arm and not use the pitman arm with it? i measured the distance out from the hole in the frame and the idler is about a inch and a half farther out that the stock one. but the drivers side quick ratio is almost two and a half father than stock. if i used it too. but terrible interferance with the headers on drivers side. steering rod looks straight in line for steering rods from ball joints across to the other ball joint. it clears the tti headers too! someone please tell me if it will hurt on the alignment end of it. thanks moparts!!!

Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: 70moparmike] #2653441
05/08/19 04:11 PM
05/08/19 04:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,490
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
I'm not sure why but I know your suppose to match both - fast ratio idler and pitman, or stock idler/pitman

Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: dangina] #2653455
05/08/19 04:55 PM
05/08/19 04:55 PM
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Posts: 14,889
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Originally Posted by dangina
I'm not sure why but I know your suppose to match both - fast ratio idler and pitman, or stock idler/pitman


The AAR and T/A didn't match. the theory is that matching length's ensures consistent ratio in both directions. The E bodies had clearance issues and the engineers found that using the shorter idler made the needed clearance and the change in L vs R ratio was small enough not to matter.

Using the shorter pitman arm eliminates any benefit of a faster ratio.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: Supercuda] #2653463
05/08/19 05:22 PM
05/08/19 05:22 PM
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Posts: 403
Colorado front range
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BcudaChris Offline
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I run the fast ratio pitman/stock idler setup, only because header massage would have been required to fit the longer idler.

I only notice anything during parking maneuvers (foreword or reverse) starting with the wheel ~1/16/turn from the lock in either direction. It seems to come around quicker, particularly turned almost all the way left in reverse.

I can't imagine it being a problem, even on a tight autox. That said, I haven't done an autox since installing the setup.

This is in an E body

Last edited by BcudaChris; 05/08/19 05:23 PM.
Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: BcudaChris] #2653577
05/09/19 05:43 AM
05/09/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 294
indy
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i have the opposite problem. the pitman would require alot of header massaging and the longer quick ratio idler arm clears barely. guess i should be ok using the set up to clear my pan easily. might be an answer for all you others with the same problem. thanks moparts

Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: Supercuda] #2653674
05/09/19 11:44 AM
05/09/19 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,440
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
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Posts: 1,440
NW Chicago suburban area
Supercuda -- "The E bodies had clearance issues and the engineers found that using the shorter idler made the needed clearance and the change in L vs R ratio was small enough not to matter."

I find that hard to believe as there are no "clearance issues" with a factory setup, nor with the longer idler arm with a factory exhaust. I personally spoke with Chrysler engineers about this matter in the mid-70s.. They knew about it right away, but by the time it could be corrected by having to change the standard short factory idler arm to the longer and correct C-Body idler arm, whenever the Fast-Ratio power steering box was optioned for the car, it was too late in the production runs... and the overall cost factor was an issue. Furthermore, not that many cars were being ordered with the "Fast-Ratio ps option". The writing was already on the wall to kill the AAR/T/A and the Fast-Ratio ps option -- even for the early 71 E-bodies having that option made available... which hardly anyone, including the dealers, knew about. So, it was decided to move on and leave it alone... marketing the ps option as "Fast-Ratio" was cool and attractive, and needed at that time; too bad they screwed up. Bottom line: It would've been too costly to make that needed production line change.

Shame on MaMopar for ignoring the matter.

Also, remember, no-one "created" or "developed" what has become known and referred to as the "fast-ratio idler arm"... it is simply a ~70 C-body idler arm.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: steering hitting pan, b body [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2653698
05/09/19 01:13 PM
05/09/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 294
indy
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70moparmike Offline OP
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indy
does the c body arm hang down any lower? it would clear my headers if id does? but if same arm, no good will happen for me on the arm situation?

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