front end alignment
#2648513
04/24/19 03:25 PM
04/24/19 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Just got through rebuilding the front end of the dart and doing the home alignment on it so it will be good enough to get it to an alignment shop. Doing a bunch of reading on this and read that these cars like+1 degree of caster, but no matter how much adjustment I do on the upper control arm, I cant get the lower ball joint to sit ahead of the upper ball joint, so how can you get positive caster with stock bushings?
Last edited by mopower440; 04/24/19 05:19 PM.
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: mopower440]
#2648519
04/24/19 03:37 PM
04/24/19 03:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
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You don’t want negative caster....you want positive, and it’s not likely you can get it with a stock set up.
BUT......
You don’t need to concern yourself with caster just for a drive to the alignment. Just make the wheels reasonably vertical, that’s camber.
Also make a reasonable toe setting by setting the front edge distance equal to the rear edge.
I would highly recommend YOU set the right height first, to what you want, most shops don’t adjust this (they should) and it does affect the alignment, so it’s done first,
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2648536
04/24/19 04:22 PM
04/24/19 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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Exactly as Pacnorth suggested, say no to negative caster. The problem is the stock components will often not have enough adjustment in them to get a decent amount of positive.
Resolve this before your alignment, either buy replacing the upper arms or some other method. Offset upper bushings are the cheapest option but a bushing that is paper thin on one side was never meant to be but it works in a pinch.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2648556
04/24/19 05:18 PM
04/24/19 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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sorry guys, I meant positive caster, not negative..i went back and edited the post and changed it to say positive..
Last edited by mopower440; 04/24/19 05:20 PM.
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: mopower440]
#2648583
04/24/19 07:29 PM
04/24/19 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,996
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,996
Benton, IL.
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The last time I had the Cuda aligned, it came into the specs recommended here with offset bushings and the taller spindles. But when I got in the car, we couldn't get it back in spec. Now before you guys start with the cracks, I only weigh 190. And I don't know what a passenger like the wife would do to the alignment. I was really surprised how much my weight affected the numbers.
So what do you guys do? Do you have weight in the driver's seat when you have it aligned? Or do you just have them set it empty? And what about a passenger's weight?
Master, again and still
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: mopower440]
#2648677
04/25/19 01:46 AM
04/25/19 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4406bbl
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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Just got through rebuilding the front end of the dart and doing the home alignment on it so it will be good enough to get it to an alignment shop. Doing a bunch of reading on this and read that these cars like+1 degree of caster, but no matter how much adjustment I do on the upper control arm, I cant get the lower ball joint to sit ahead of the upper ball joint, so how can you get positive caster with stock bushings? Adjustable lower struts will do it. Here is how I did my own car, wrong for most I am sure but it works. First I had the frame squared on a frame machine. I then used a plumb bob to mark center of each axle to floor, then plumb bob center of lower ball joint to floor and made a measurement between them. My wheelbase should have been 116, made it 116-1/4, that gave me the the 2 degrees I wanted, and lower ball ahead of upper like you need. The rear moog strut bushings were too thick for my car, 1970 b-body, factory rear bushing is thinner. I ended up with cut down prothane and cut down sleeves to get it right, and also founds struts varied by 1/8" in length. I found that some moog sleeves were too long also. I also found once you square up the car you find out real fast the k-frame is absolute junk, had to push mine around a little to get everything perfect. A torch, 5 lb hammer and a steel bar will get your stuff in shape. If you do not need the stock look just buy the adjustable strut rods and be done.
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: mopower440]
#2648814
04/25/19 12:07 PM
04/25/19 12:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Both my Mopars would barely get any positive caster, and would never feel planted and stable as I drove them. I do have a bit of positive rake on both cars. If you look at a lot of pure stock Mopars, the front end sits higher than the rear. I don't like that look, and set them up so the rear is a bit higher than the front.
It wasn't until I installed the adjustable strut rods that I was able to get a decent amount of positive caster. The cars track straight and are stable even at triple digit speeds with more positive caster. I believe mine are 4 to 6 * positive now. The offset Moog bushings didn't make much difference on my set-up, and I installed them as recommended on this site.
You can machine the stock strut rods to effectively "shorten" their fixed assembled length, or simply buy some adjustable ones. Be sure you do not bind the upper and lower control arms by removing the torsion bars and sweeping them through their full range of travel. It doesn't take much to pull the lower control arm forward enough with the adjustable strut rods to gain positive caster of the suspension assembly.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: front end alignment
[Re: jbc426]
#2648876
04/25/19 02:14 PM
04/25/19 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4406bbl
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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Both my Mopars would barely get any positive caster, and would never feel planted and stable as I drove them. I do have a bit of positive rake on both cars. If you look at a lot of pure stock Mopars, the front end sits higher than the rear. I don't like that look, and set them up so the rear is a bit higher than the front.
It wasn't until I installed the adjustable strut rods that I was able to get a decent amount of positive caster. The cars track straight and are stable even at triple digit speeds with more positive caster. I believe mine are 4 to 6 * positive now. The offset Moog bushings didn't make much difference on my set-up, and I installed them as recommended on this site.
You can machine the stock strut rods to effectively "shorten" their fixed assembled length, or simply buy some adjustable ones. Be sure you do not bind the upper and lower control arms by removing the torsion bars and sweeping them through their full range of travel. It doesn't take much to pull the lower control arm forward enough with the adjustable strut rods to gain positive caster of the suspension assembly. Exactly, my frame guy loves them. A set of rods with about 1/4"machined off the front stub and some custom diameter washers would be real nice for us guys that need the stock look. I like the looks of the ones classic industries sells if you want to use stock strut bushings.
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