78 amp alternator upgrade issue
#2646289
04/17/19 11:59 PM
04/17/19 11:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,309 Laveen, Arizona
GTSDart340
OP
pro stock
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,309
Laveen, Arizona
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My 40 amp alternator in my dart took a dump last night. I figured since I've added injection and electronic ignition, I would upgrade to the 78 amp alternator and the newer style voltage regulator. I do have the injection system, electronic ignition, and headlight system attached to the back of the alternator. I did add in the second field wire. Now my ammeter is pegged to the charging side, but the battery is only getting 12.8 volts. What could cause this? I do have another voltage regulator I could try. Could the field wires be plugged in wrong? Electrical is not my strong suit. Thanks!
1949 International KB-2 "Mater" - 302/T5
1968 Dodge Dart GTS "The Drat" - 340/727
2006 Dodge Magnum R/T - Hemi
2016 Dodge Durango Limited - 3.6
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: GTSDart340]
#2646307
04/18/19 01:57 AM
04/18/19 01:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Do you know what the amp rating is on your amp meter? Is the 78 amp alternator a newer Mopar replacement factory type or a after market one? If Mopar type try reading the voltage at the output side of the alternator on the big wire going back to the battery with the motor revved up above 2500 RPM and see if the voltage output increases Is the alternator belt real tight or not? If not tight, tighten it up so it is Let us know what you find
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2646314
04/18/19 03:57 AM
04/18/19 03:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Valencia, España
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1st... don't worry about the ammeter capacity anymore. Your ammeter will be safe with high output alts since won't read anymore power coming and going from batt because wont be discharged like previouslly did. The stock 78 amps mopar alt is still not the MOST efficient of all but WAY BETTER than the old stock one ( is the one I'm using ) specially with the small pulley they use to come. Ammeter reads what the batt sucks and provides, not what the alt sources, Now, about the voltage... not everything is on alternator, but on wiring conditions. Did you JUST upgraded the alt without consider the wiring and ALSO ammeter conditions itself? After all these years of abuse over a not correct charging plattform from factory lot of stuff can be affected Charging system upgradeAlt fields can be connected in either way, so don't worry about that. Reg must be good grounded.
Last edited by NachoRT74; 04/18/19 04:06 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2646383
04/18/19 09:08 AM
04/18/19 09:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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About to go away
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What's the voltage at the alternator terminal stud?
If the alternator is full fielded (max output all the time) then idds are the green wire is grounded, or your regulator is bad.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Stanton]
#2646426
04/18/19 11:02 AM
04/18/19 11:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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Don't newer alternators have the voltage regulator built in ?? No stock Mopars that I know of You can buy high output after market single wire and use them also I did on my current S/P bracket car, Powermaster 100 amp single wire
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/18/19 04:20 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2646516
04/18/19 04:07 PM
04/18/19 04:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,309 Laveen, Arizona
GTSDart340
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I did use the factory 78 amp alternator, and in going to run the ammeter bypass tonight. I started the car this morning to check the voltage at the back of the alternator, and it was showing 15 volts there. I checked the battery, and it was showing 13.5. I didn't change anything from last night to this morning. Any thoughts on what to check?
1949 International KB-2 "Mater" - 302/T5
1968 Dodge Dart GTS "The Drat" - 340/727
2006 Dodge Magnum R/T - Hemi
2016 Dodge Durango Limited - 3.6
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: GTSDart340]
#2646524
04/18/19 04:29 PM
04/18/19 04:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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If your seeing 15 volts at the alternator stud or on the output wire and only 13.0 volts at the battery you have a bad connection( high resistance, corrosion or loose) somewhere between the two Two volts drop between the two is way to much take your volt meter and trace it back from the alternator to the bulkhead connector and then back on the other wire that feeds to the battery If your seeing 14+ volts into the bulkhead connector and less than than 14.0 volts coming out your on the way to fixing it I have seen more than one Mopar, 1966 to 1971 model yrs. have the inner nut on the amp gauge loose causing what you may have now Please let us know what you find so others on here can benefit from your work also What year, make and model car are you working on? Hopefully someone on here will have the correct year and model factory service manual (FSM) so they can look up the wiring schematic and tell you which wire color and pin location to test from
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/18/19 04:43 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Andrewh]
#2646659
04/18/19 11:34 PM
04/18/19 11:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,309 Laveen, Arizona
GTSDart340
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It appears the sensor wire is getting an incorrect reading. At idle the battery voltage shows 13 ish volts, the sensor wire shows 11.5. I have read about putting a relay in to correct the sensor wire issue. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for that? How difficult would that be? I have limited use of my arms, so I'd prefer not to have to tinker under the dash. Thanks!
1949 International KB-2 "Mater" - 302/T5
1968 Dodge Dart GTS "The Drat" - 340/727
2006 Dodge Magnum R/T - Hemi
2016 Dodge Durango Limited - 3.6
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Andrewh]
#2646806
04/19/19 11:46 AM
04/19/19 11:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,309 Laveen, Arizona
GTSDart340
OP
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That's exactly what I was thinking, but wanted to verify before I did it. Fires suck! Thanks for your help!
1949 International KB-2 "Mater" - 302/T5
1968 Dodge Dart GTS "The Drat" - 340/727
2006 Dodge Magnum R/T - Hemi
2016 Dodge Durango Limited - 3.6
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: GTSDart340]
#2647164
04/20/19 10:15 AM
04/20/19 10:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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As said recheck how you have everything wired & I would temp wire it all up with jumpers & confirm everything is copacetic on your readings then hard wire everything. A relay is good but as you know there is an issue elsewhere that needs to be addressed first.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: GTSDart340]
#2647214
04/20/19 12:01 PM
04/20/19 12:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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That's exactly what I was thinking, but wanted to verify before I did it. Fires suck! Thanks for your help! Have you look at a FSM wiring schematic yet ? If not look at one so you know about which wires feed the field on your alterantor One is from the ignition switch and the other is from the ignition ballast resistor which is fed from the ignition switch If you don't want melted wires find out what is ( loose wires, bad connection, corrosion)causing the voltage drop between the dash and engine wiring harnesses and fix it ! I've had to fix a bunch of burnt up wiring harness in many Mopar cars I've owned, the factory wiring and assembly of those cars suck The old cars, pre OTB-1, have very simple circuits, no magic in them at all, battery and ground only except inside the alternators
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/20/19 12:02 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2647449
04/21/19 01:34 AM
04/21/19 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Balt. Md
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If your seeing 15 volts at the alternator stud or on the output wire and only 13.0 volts at the battery you have a bad connection( high resistance, corrosion or loose) somewhere between the two Two volts drop between the two is way to much take your volt meter and trace it back from the alternator to the bulkhead connector and then back on the other wire that feeds to the battery If your seeing 14+ volts into the bulkhead connector and less than than 14.0 volts coming out your on the way to fixing it I have seen more than one Mopar, 1966 to 1971 model yrs. have the inner nut on the amp gauge loose causing what you may have now Please let us know what you find so others on here can benefit from your work also What year, make and model car are you working on? Hopefully someone on here will have the correct year and model factory service manual (FSM) so they can look up the wiring schematic and tell you which wire color and pin location to test from Hopefully you have it fixed. If not I agree with Cab about a voltage drop problem. If it still has problems I would do a charging system output voltage drop test next. Good luck with it. Ron
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: 383man]
#2647469
04/21/19 07:37 AM
04/21/19 07:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Valencia, España
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Deleted
Last edited by NachoRT74; 04/21/19 07:41 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: GTSDart340]
#2647529
04/21/19 11:49 AM
04/21/19 11:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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My 40 amp alternator in my dart took a dump last night. I figured since I've added injection and electronic ignition, I would upgrade to the 78 amp alternator and the newer style voltage regulator. I do have the injection system, electronic ignition, and headlight system attached to the back of the alternator. I did add in the second field wire. Now my ammeter is pegged to the charging side, but the battery is only getting 12.8 volts. What could cause this? I do have another voltage regulator I could try. Could the field wires be plugged in wrong? Electrical is not my strong suit. Thanks! If there is nothing on the battery circuit other than the battery, then there is a big problem in the wiring between the ammeter and the battery. Recharging of the battery should never be drawing 40 amps (gage pegged). 30 amps for a few seconds is OK right after starting, 5 amps for a few minutes. Once recharged it should show zero. Over 30 amps for anything more than a 1/2 minute and the weakest connections will get hot and then fail. If the positive field wire is at 12.8 volts and the alternator output is at 14 Volts then there is a bad connection or wire as the others have already posted.
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Mattax]
#2647539
04/21/19 12:17 PM
04/21/19 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
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top fuel
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Phila. Pa.
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You'll have to make your own diagram, but this should give you a start. Its a schematic for 67-9 A-body with the mentioned mods wired in as guesses about the connections. On the 70 up voltage regulator, the sensing wire must be the same as the power feed. The green wire connection is the ground side and the regulator controls hpow frequently to complete the circuit to ground. According to the MTSC, they attach as shown in the triangle. I don't have one in hand to confirm that.
Last edited by Mattax; 04/21/19 12:28 PM.
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Re: 78 amp alternator upgrade issue
[Re: Mattax]
#2647549
04/21/19 12:49 PM
04/21/19 12:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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About to go away
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Remember, the ONLY ammeter load on the battery side of the ammeter is supposed to be the battery. Nothing else. I fyou have anythign else there it will show up as a discharge on the ammeter.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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