Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: AndyF] #2643001
04/08/19 10:21 PM
04/08/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
gregcharger72 Offline OP
member
gregcharger72  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
Update..... So, I took the hv pump off the engine I'm replacing , cleaned and inspected it , then put it on the new engine. Same drill motor, same oil,and the pressure is now is just over 60 psi.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
Changing the pump in the car will be a PITA .I would have to lift the engine to remove it . Would be nice to resolve this issue with the engine out of the car.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643032
04/08/19 11:28 PM
04/08/19 11:28 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
Glad you got it fixed.
The 440 stroker we are building is going to use a standard volume pump. I pulled the pump apart to clean it and it was full of metal shavings!
The pump was on an engine the guy bought, but never ran. Looks like a new pump, no scratches inside, and all the metal shavings looked like they were just in the intake port of the pump?
I really looks like the metal was from the pump manufacture, and not the engine? Anyhow, Glad I decided to check it out before using it.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643056
04/09/19 12:40 AM
04/09/19 12:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Originally Posted by gregcharger72
Update..... So, I took the hv pump off the engine I'm replacing , cleaned and inspected it , then put it on the new engine. Same drill motor, same oil,and the pressure is now is just over 60 psi.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
Changing the pump in the car will be a PITA .I would have to lift the engine to remove it . Would be nice to resolve this issue with the engine out of the car.


Yeah that doesn't surprise me. Sounds like you're leaking some oil inside the engine so you need the HV pump in order to build pressure. It could be the EDM lifters or it could be the lifter bores or it could be something else. You can find it if you take the time to look for it or just run the engine with the HV pump and see how it works.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643099
04/09/19 08:00 AM
04/09/19 08:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
Originally Posted by gregcharger72
Update..... So, I took the hv pump off the engine I'm replacing , cleaned and inspected it , then put it on the new engine. Same drill motor, same oil,and the pressure is now is just over 60 psi.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
Changing the pump in the car will be a PITA .I would have to lift the engine to remove it . Would be nice to resolve this issue with the engine out of the car.


That is good news. Do you prefer the number you got with the HV pump?
If it were mine, I would prefer the bigger number.

The only reason I have stuck with hv pumps is...more pressure at idle.
Although I don't feel the engine "needs" it, it's a peace of mind thing.

If you get a chance to prime it with the intake off, even years from now (let's say you decide to try a different manifold later or whatever),
it might be interesting to see what's happening there.

I've found not all lifters are the same size, many are smaller than they should be and they leak.
Sometimes the leak is not 100% negative, for instance when you've got rollers oiled by splash it could be helpful.






Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: big block oil pump question [Re: ZIPPY] #2643112
04/09/19 08:43 AM
04/09/19 08:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
The trouble is without running it warm we have no idea what the upper rpm pressure will be. What if you end up with 100psi or more?
What body style is it that you can't pull the pump?
Doug

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: ZIPPY] #2643119
04/09/19 09:06 AM
04/09/19 09:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
gregcharger72 Offline OP
member
gregcharger72  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
I,m better with 60 psi than 40 . I,m going to install the engine this weekend with the hv pump and see where I,m at with it when it gets hot. If the pressure is excessive I,ll change back to the standard pump. I,ll update the post with the results. Something i noticed when priming that i didn't give much thought to at the time was how much oil comes out of that tiny hole in the bottom of the lifter. This is the first time I've used EDM lifters.

The car is a 72 charger , with the hv pump I have to lift up the engine about a half inch to get the pump to clear the k member.

20190331_182604_resized.jpg
Last edited by gregcharger72; 04/09/19 09:31 AM. Reason: add photo
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643124
04/09/19 09:33 AM
04/09/19 09:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,662
On the parachute mount
N
n20mstr Offline
master
n20mstr  Offline
master
N

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,662
On the parachute mount
HONESTLY.....you've got enough pressure to lube the engine. Start it and see what it has ?

BUT, my engine on a stand has 75lbs with a 3/8 drill. Its an Indy alum block. my lifters are hardlined from the back of the block and are pushrod oiling. I use a HV pump. Don't forget that you created another oil leak with the edm lifters. That's why id fire it and see. Plenty of engines are fine with the oil pressure you have. Also, you can switch to a heaiver weight oil, but id fire it first and see.
Also im assuming you using a steel rod so I don't think it will go down that much when warm.

Sorry, now I see that all these things have been addressed....

Just want to add how good these Melling HV pumps are, ive been using the same one for almost 20 years now...and it was at BES and all they did was clean it and use it again !

Last edited by n20mstr; 04/09/19 09:47 AM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: n20mstr] #2643441
04/09/19 09:37 PM
04/09/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
standard pump uses a 45psi relief spring. that driven stuff is pretty thin.

Last edited by lewtot184; 04/09/19 09:40 PM.
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: lewtot184] #2643456
04/09/19 10:24 PM
04/09/19 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
nielsville, minn.
Q
quickd100 Offline
master
quickd100  Offline
master
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
nielsville, minn.
You probably have plenty of pressure. You really only need 10 psi per 1000rpm, (and that's way more than you need). Any more than that is just costing you hp and working the intermediate shaft harder than needed. I d run it and see where you're at, if you HAVE to have more pressure you can shim the spring.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643458
04/09/19 10:31 PM
04/09/19 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Will you be able to access the relief valve when the engine is in the car? If not you might want to change springs now. Use the soft spring from the standard pump and put a couple of small washers behind it. That should give you 60 psi at speed. With the engine on the stand you can play with the spring and the shims to see how they vary.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: AndyF] #2643530
04/10/19 08:05 AM
04/10/19 08:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
i have a spare engine on the stand that uses a stock pump and has 10-30 driven oil in it. it does about 50psi spinning the pump about 900rpm. this is with stock half groove mains and stock bearing clearances. I also have another stock 440 I drive and it does about 50psi with 10-30 rotella and 180f temps.

Last edited by lewtot184; 04/10/19 08:07 AM.
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643580
04/10/19 10:13 AM
04/10/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
T
therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
A HV pump really dosent increase pressure That why its high volume.It just pumps more.Want more pressure get the spring kit.My 440 runs 60 minimum hot with HV HP spring.Been running since I put it in like 20 years ago.When my son had the 62 300 with 40K original miles we installed the same setup.Ran minimium 45 to 50 hot all the time.That ran like 15 years and never a problem even with the OE 62 drive.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: AndyF] #2643594
04/10/19 10:37 AM
04/10/19 10:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
gregcharger72 Offline OP
member
gregcharger72  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 110
pa
Yes, i can get to the relief spring fairly easy with the engine in the car. Ultimately what is the ideal oil pressure I'm looking for? The car will be drag raced the goal is high 10's range . i didn't realize it would be trial and error setting the engine oil pressure.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643611
04/10/19 11:02 AM
04/10/19 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
It's not really trial and error, it's just relatively easy to access and tweak on anytime you want, so we get kind of spoiled by that design feature.

A HV pump generally comes with the high pressure spring in it. Either worst, or best of both worlds depending on how you look at it.

I have an M63HV still in service from around 1988....



Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643618
04/10/19 11:22 AM
04/10/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
You changed the design of the oil system when you added the EDM lifters so now you have to play oil pump engineer to get the system back in balance. Engine builders do this all the time. Pushrod oiling, bushed lifter bores, wide bearing clearances, etc. all change how the oiling system works. The more internal leaks in the engine then the more volume you need to pump. The problem with the HV pump is that sometimes it is too much volume so then you have to use a softer spring to blow off the volume inside the pump.

If you can access the relief spring with the engine in the car then go ahead and run it with the HV pump and see where you are at for oil pressure both hot and cold. If the high pressure is too high then you can change back to the softer spring. I mix and match springs and pumps all the time to get the correct combination for the engine. I use a little fixture to measure the spring force so I know which one to use.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: AndyF] #2643626
04/10/19 11:40 AM
04/10/19 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I use a plate to measure the oil pressure on my stuff.. its a block
off plate with a pressure gauge.. most of my SB pumps have a blow
off point of 70#
wave

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: therocks] #2643658
04/10/19 01:04 PM
04/10/19 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted by therocks
A HV pump really dosent increase pressure


Sure it does....if lack of volume with a stock pump is the cause of low pressure.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: gregcharger72] #2643683
04/10/19 02:14 PM
04/10/19 02:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,027
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,027
Mt Morris Michigan
Sounds like plenty of pressure to fire it up and see what you really have when hot. Someone posted here last week that nascar engines have 30-35 psi oil pressure going around the track. I believe oil flow is more important than pressure. If that's true, then you will have plenty of pressure.
I use a Milodon oil pump I bought from Andy on my 511. I have 75# cold and 35# at idle hot and that is with .033 main .028 rod bearing clearance and using 15/50 Amsoil. Awesome pump.

Re: big block oil pump question [Re: mopar dave] #2643696
04/10/19 02:34 PM
04/10/19 02:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Sounds like plenty of pressure to fire it up and see what you really have when hot. Someone posted here last week that nascar engines have 30-35 psi oil pressure going around the track. I believe oil flow is more important than pressure. If that's true, then you will have plenty of pressure.
I use a Milodon oil pump I bought from Andy on my 511. I have 75# cold and 35# at idle hot and that is with .033 main .028 rod bearing clearance and using 15/50 Amsoil. Awesome pump.


Run the oil pressure that low with the Chrysler oiling system and it will live about 5 minutes. You can't compare what NASCAR is doing with stock block stuff.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: big block oil pump question [Re: madscientist] #2643702
04/10/19 02:47 PM
04/10/19 02:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I shoot for 10 Lb. per 1000 RPM, IE 65 Lb. at 6500 RPM with hot oil up
I now use 5W20WT on all my street and strip engines and I have seen 18 Lb. at 850 RPM with the oil temps at or above 180 F, 40 Lb. at 1200 RPM when revved up a little and it still had 65 Lb. at or above 6500 RPM up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1