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Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: madscientist] #2640206
04/02/19 01:29 PM
04/02/19 01:29 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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I've seen tools for installing the bushing, but what's required to remove one from an assembled engine?

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640213
04/02/19 01:35 PM
04/02/19 01:35 PM
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted by BradH
I've seen tools for installing the bushing, but what's required to remove one from an assembled engine?


I thread them and pull them out with a slide hammer when the engine is together. If you do, make damn sure you thread the whole bushing and screw the slide hammer to the bottom of the bushing.,otherwise you just pull the top of it off. And then I say a few cuss words, throw the tool, take a break and start over.

That's what works best for me. YMMV


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640232
04/02/19 02:40 PM
04/02/19 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BradH
I've seen tools for installing the bushing, but what's required to remove one from an assembled engine?

Is the engine installed in the car? I just took off the oil pump.
Also had a friend who ran a bronze gear and lost all the teeth after a year of street driving put in a melonized gear. No problems since.

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2640249
04/02/19 03:10 PM
04/02/19 03:10 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
I’d put a few hundred miles on it, then look at the gear again.

The teeth on the cam gear don’t have the nice chamfer on them like cams of days gone by, but at least they don’t have a sharp edge.


On another thread you mentioned the older Crane roller I picked up recently came from the era when they were a little nicer to intermediate shaft gears.
At the time, it went in one ear and out the other. I just checked my picture, and I get it now.

Never gave the cam gear a second thought before. Thanks.

From what I can see in the pics, Brad's gear doesn't look horribly bad.

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: ZIPPY] #2640270
04/02/19 03:57 PM
04/02/19 03:57 PM
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central il.
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I was told at one time that crane use to supply roller cores to other companies and you could tell by the gold color between the lobes that they were the good ones compared to the ones that are black.

I really don’t know for sure but I’m sure Fast and others have forgotten more than I ever knew and can answer that question?

A128A796-8673-4190-9E04-C84A94DEAD66.jpeg
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: second 70] #2640279
04/02/19 04:32 PM
04/02/19 04:32 PM
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Canada
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I would not worry..it needs some street miles and then have a look at it..I have a drawer with 20 or more unhappy oil pump drives.
I'll get my son to bring in a bunch,I'll snap some pictures and post them....some of them you can shave with..

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640309
04/02/19 05:34 PM
04/02/19 05:34 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by BradH
I posted the first set of pics to highlight the wear/contact areas in direct light.

These next ones were taken without flash (ambient florescent light), FWIW.

I'll bet money that the gear you have is NOT a Milidon or one of the early Mopar brand that had the roll pins installed in them instead of the solid retaining pin yours has work shruggy
The one I'm having trouble with is a early Mopar brand and it has the bright colored roll pin with the ends mashed, the two Milidons I'm using have a black coated colored roll pin in them up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: madscientist] #2640423
04/02/19 09:49 PM
04/02/19 09:49 PM
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MI, usa
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I've run the same bronze gear I bought used. 0w30 JR1 oil. High volume pump. No issues at 500 passes.
Doug

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640439
04/02/19 10:14 PM
04/02/19 10:14 PM
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Morrow, OH
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Originally Posted by BradH
I've seen tools for installing the bushing, but what's required to remove one from an assembled engine?


From the factory service manual:

bushing removal.JPG

67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: markz528] #2640474
04/02/19 11:49 PM
04/02/19 11:49 PM
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West Coast, USA
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I bought the tool to remove and reinstall the bushing. One thing most people overlook is to fill the bushing opening with redline synthetic gear oil and squeeze it between your finger and thumb until it oozes out through the pours of the sintered brass. Then press it in and burnish it with the tool.

Another idea is to use the treated steel gear on a new cam. If you can't do that, have the gear cryogenically treated .and coat it with synthetic disc brake grease.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: markz528] #2640482
04/03/19 12:24 AM
04/03/19 12:24 AM
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Glendora Ca.
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That bushing tool makes me smile every time I have used it.



"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: Just-a-dart] #2640587
04/03/19 11:20 AM
04/03/19 11:20 AM
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BradH Offline OP
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Currently looking into sources for both the extraction & installation tools... scope Looks like about $200 +/-, from what I've seen so far.

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2640590
04/03/19 11:25 AM
04/03/19 11:25 AM
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BradH Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I'll bet money that the gear you have is NOT a Milidon or one of the early Mopar brand that had the roll pins installed in them instead of the solid retaining pin yours has work shruggy

All I can tell you is what I've shown is an MP part purchased a few years ago from Hughes; I don't know when "early" means in this case.

The Milodon I bought is still in its original package, and I haven't bothered to look any further for the 440 Source part that is "somewhere" in my parts boxes.

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640601
04/03/19 11:43 AM
04/03/19 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BradH
Currently looking into sources for both the extraction & installation tools... scope Looks like about $200 +/-, from what I've seen so far.



Dig around a bit Brad because I was looking about a year ago for a friend and I found them for about a hundred bucks.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: madscientist] #2640606
04/03/19 11:48 AM
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I use a flat washer that I ground down to barely fit the bottom OD of the bushing to drive it out from the oil pump side of the block using a Ford F.E. motor pushrod to drive the old one out, it barely fits into the hole in the block hammerblush grin
I then use a stock oil pump drive gear to install the new bushings by sliding them onto the shaft and then drive it in the block wrench hammer
No problems yet with these methods luck scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/03/19 11:50 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640629
04/03/19 12:35 PM
04/03/19 12:35 PM
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Tulsa OK
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Originally Posted by BradH
Currently looking into sources for both the extraction & installation tools... scope Looks like about $200 +/-, from what I've seen so far.


I changed mine on my small block without pulling the pan. I have a harbor freight bearing puller kit and it worked perfect. My Dad has the install tool so I was able to use that.

57505884696__E73A68C5-CC01-45E4-A2F1-9D23A24083B6.JPG

68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: Bad340fish] #2640654
04/03/19 01:41 PM
04/03/19 01:41 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Quote
Currently looking into sources for both the extraction & installation tools... scope Looks like about $200 +/-, from what I've seen so far.


$100 from Hughes

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: Stanton] #2640724
04/03/19 04:27 PM
04/03/19 04:27 PM
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Sydney,Australia
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$99.00 at Jegs , just over 100 from Summit . Proform brand tool 66488


Tex


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Finally fitted a solid cam,
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Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640744
04/03/19 05:21 PM
04/03/19 05:21 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BradH
Currently looking into sources for both the extraction & installation tools... scope Looks like about $200 +/-, from what I've seen so far.

I should have been more clear and said it was looking like about $200 (give or take) for both tools combined.

The HF puller approach looks like a good idea. I found a video on YouTube last night showing someone pulling a bushing w/ a small OTC-brand puller, so I kinda had that idea in mind already. Nice to see that something I can buy 10 minutes from my house will work.

I think the installation tool is a better approach than driving in the bushing with an intermediate shaft alone. Seems like not using the tool to stabilize the driver in the distributor opening is more likely to result in the bushing not going in straight, which means the shaft won't be truly parallel to the bushing's inner surface, thus wearing it out faster.

Re: Signs of excessive or abnormal bronze gear wear? [Re: BradH] #2640892
04/03/19 08:34 PM
04/03/19 08:34 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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You can pound the bushing in with an axe and it'll still go in in straight. It's getting it to seat in the bore so it doesn't spin after use that requires the special tool.

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