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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2638125
03/28/19 03:10 PM
03/28/19 03:10 PM
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I like how the arguemnets are changing when quick Gen III’s are pointed out lol. Member Triple Threat has ran a 9.74 in a 3400 lb Dart short shifting it and not having enough gear. He dynoed it and it was still making power at 7500 rpm when he let off. Wow, very unimpressive for junkyard parts (factory lifters and used rockers lol).............

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638126
03/28/19 03:12 PM
03/28/19 03:12 PM
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Romulus, MI
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

I’m just stating the facts buddy. Don’t use mine as a comparison because it’s built as a weekly bracket racer with a solid lifter cam and a 850 carb. Not one trick go fast part on my engine. Heck I still run old school ring pacs. The test n tuners running the coastal states with killer air won’t even go out if the conditions aren’t in their favor. I’m not sure what’s up with Rays barracuda as I haven’t heard times from it in decades. Some of you still aren’t hearing me say I think the Gen3 is a great package and can run some great numbers but I also see guys having fitness issues a diving in before it’s planned out. I grew out of having powerful street cars over 30 years ago so for me personally a 10-11 second NA street car doesn’t interest me. Maybe it will when I get older to keep racing.


Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

Ohhhh ya and the old stuff keeps getting cheaper for me to buy. The Gen3’s are almost as fun beating at the track as the LS Chevy junk.


Don't use you as a comparison? Your quote about beating Gen3's at the track invited me to, besides I'd say it's more than a fair comparison, your 2800lb backhalfed, huge tire, strut front suspension bracket car on methanol vs pump gas street cars that weigh 500 lbs more

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: GTS340] #2638131
03/28/19 03:28 PM
03/28/19 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GTS340
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

I’m just stating the facts buddy. Don’t use mine as a comparison because it’s built as a weekly bracket racer with a solid lifter cam and a 850 carb. Not one trick go fast part on my engine. Heck I still run old school ring pacs. The test n tuners running the coastal states with killer air won’t even go out if the conditions aren’t in their favor. I’m not sure what’s up with Rays barracuda as I haven’t heard times from it in decades. Some of you still aren’t hearing me say I think the Gen3 is a great package and can run some great numbers but I also see guys having fitness issues a diving in before it’s planned out. I grew out of having powerful street cars over 30 years ago so for me personally a 10-11 second NA street car doesn’t interest me. Maybe it will when I get older to keep racing.


Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

Ohhhh ya and the old stuff keeps getting cheaper for me to buy. The Gen3’s are almost as fun beating at the track as the LS Chevy junk.


Don't use you as a comparison? Your quote about beating Gen3's at the track invited me to, besides I'd say it's more than a fair comparison, your 2800lb backhalfed, huge tire, strut front suspension bracket car on methanol vs pump gas street cars that weigh 500 lbs more



There you go again blaming “fat cars”. Every time you do you make my point again. And East coast racing is good for at least .15 towards a new best. Bring those cars inland to 2400-whatever air and add some humidity to it. Let’s see those numbers then NA. And that Washington guy has it down good. One of the 3 or so builds I would follow to those building them.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: STEFF] #2638136
03/28/19 03:33 PM
03/28/19 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by STEFF

I'm not getting into this argument, but just wanted to let you guys know I ran a new best about 3 or so weeks ago at SGMP with my NA 401" Gen 3 Hemi, in my 70 Road Runner STREET Car. I ran a 9.53 @ 138.4 with a 1.28 60ft.


I noticed you removed your "nothing special" comment about your engine in between the time you posted it and the time I read some of the details of your build on the Gen III forum. Very cool build, but it would have been tough to defend it's "nothing special" after seeing some of what was involved! laugh2

BTW, what's that RR weigh w/ you in it on the starting line?

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638141
03/28/19 03:51 PM
03/28/19 03:51 PM
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Chicago Blackhawks
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https://darrellcoxracing.com/team-dcr-media

Here is a link to a guy that knows a little about NEW Mopars he is a friend of my sons. He was Sponsored by Chrysler and began building and running an SRT4 Neon and it ended up going 7.90 @ 188. His Hellcat has gone 9.97 and I believe now has gone a bit quicker. New stuff works great in the right hands. Old stuff works great in the right hands just ask anyone that has had FHO or Barton build them something. Like I said before I am old school Hemi and even 440-6 years ago. Just was lucky to know and race against Barton and Banning and Beatty and Woods and Don Cloake and many others in the area I still live in. I am so glad that there are new people coming to the track that own Mopars. It was lonely for a while being one or two people running a Gen 2 with a few small block Mopars. Chrysler gave up for the longest time not building anything that resembled a V8. Now the Gen3 is here to stay so even if no one likes them or everyone loves them at least there not a Fox Body Mustang or a Belly Button Camaro taking up to much spare in staging lanes. As for going fast with old school Hemi Gen 2, Back in the early 70s you ran stock motors with these changes oil pan, oil pump, distributor, intake, carbs, Cam and springs. Stock Heads, blocks, rockers were all you had so that is what you run. The new Gen 3 is going to out number Gen 2 by about 1000 to 1 so more time will be invested into the Tech to make them even faster.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: 1980volare] #2638143
03/28/19 03:57 PM
03/28/19 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 1980volare
All the SB and bb guys are mad cause they have $2000+ heads that don’t flow what stock pre eagle heads flow...

OK, so, what do stock pre-Eagle heads flow?

And what's the best OEM Gen III head available on a street-legal production car flow?

Honestly, I'm curious what data your claim is based upon.

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: Bad340fish] #2638146
03/28/19 04:02 PM
03/28/19 04:02 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish
How could you not be impressed by something like Ray Meyers Car(Sixpackgut). 9.7, 9.8s, pump gas, 3200-3300lbs, stock rocker arms, stock heads ported by him. He took first place in his class on drag week 2016 and didn't turn a wrench on it all week. That wouldn't be easy to do on a small or big block mopar(The ET is easy, the low service and reliability is not)



His big block was faster, heavier, and just as reliable. stirthepot biggrin


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: BradH] #2638152
03/28/19 04:15 PM
03/28/19 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BradH
Originally Posted by 1980volare
All the SB and bb guys are mad cause they have $2000+ heads that don’t flow what stock pre eagle heads flow...

OK, so, what do stock pre-Eagle heads flow?

And what's the best OEM Gen III head available on a street-legal production car flow?

Honestly, I'm curious what data your claim is based upon.



Never try and have a discussion with a guy who thinks airflow numbers mean something. For the most part, they don't. I can make 300 CFM on early W-2 castings all day long. Who cares? Guys talking flow either have never ported heads to the point where they have been paid for it, or they just don't know what they are talking about.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638157
03/28/19 04:21 PM
03/28/19 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
... And East coast racing is good for at least .15 towards a new best. Bring those cars inland to 2400-whatever air and add some humidity to it. Let’s see those numbers then NA. And that Washington guy has it down good. One of the 3 or so builds I would follow to those building them.

Data from MIR in an August when I had the Challenger there shows a calculated density altitude of 3,913.501 ft. And, yes, the car was off about .3 and 3 MPH from what it would run in the fall weather a few months later

Even the close-to-sea-level tracks in the Mid-Atlantic take a hit w/ the summer heat & high humidity; it ain't always mineshaft air quality here, either. It could have easily been 5+ degrees hotter and closer to 100% humidity, which would have jacked the DA up even more.

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: madscientist] #2638159
03/28/19 04:26 PM
03/28/19 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by madscientist
Never try and have a discussion with a guy who thinks airflow numbers mean something. For the most part, they don't. I can make 300 CFM on early W-2 castings all day long. Who cares? Guys talking flow either have never ported heads to the point where they have been paid for it, or they just don't know what they are talking about.

It's not that airflow #s don't "mean something", it's just that they don't mean EVERYTHING. That's the snake pit I think a lot of people fall into...

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: BradH] #2638160
03/28/19 04:26 PM
03/28/19 04:26 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
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Originally Posted by BradH
Originally Posted by STEFF

I'm not getting into this argument, but just wanted to let you guys know I ran a new best about 3 or so weeks ago at SGMP with my NA 401" Gen 3 Hemi, in my 70 Road Runner STREET Car. I ran a 9.53 @ 138.4 with a 1.28 60ft.


I noticed you removed your "nothing special" comment about your engine in between the time you posted it and the time I read some of the details of your build on the Gen III forum. Very cool build, but it would have been tough to defend it's "nothing special" after seeing some of what was involved! laugh2

BTW, what's that RR weigh w/ you in it on the starting line?


It was the word "unimpressive" that I deleted. My build is no more exotic than any other average performance build.....stock block, aftermarket everything else. Car weighs 3200 lbs with Driver.

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: STEFF] #2638162
03/28/19 04:29 PM
03/28/19 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by STEFF
Originally Posted by BradH
Originally Posted by STEFF

I'm not getting into this argument, but just wanted to let you guys know I ran a new best about 3 or so weeks ago at SGMP with my NA 401" Gen 3 Hemi, in my 70 Road Runner STREET Car. I ran a 9.53 @ 138.4 with a 1.28 60ft.


I noticed you removed your "nothing special" comment about your engine in between the time you posted it and the time I read some of the details of your build on the Gen III forum. Very cool build, but it would have been tough to defend it's "nothing special" after seeing some of what was involved! laugh2

BTW, what's that RR weigh w/ you in it on the starting line?


It was the word "unimpressive" that I deleted. My build is no more exotic than any other average performance build.....stock block, aftermarket everything else. Car weighs 3200 lbs with Driver.

Sweet...

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: BradH] #2638164
03/28/19 04:32 PM
03/28/19 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BradH
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
... And East coast racing is good for at least .15 towards a new best. Bring those cars inland to 2400-whatever air and add some humidity to it. Let’s see those numbers then NA. And that Washington guy has it down good. One of the 3 or so builds I would follow to those building them.

Data from MIR in an August when I had the Challenger there shows a calculated density altitude of 3,913.501 ft. And, yes, the car was off about .3 and 3 MPH from what it would run in the fall weather a few months later

Even the close-to-sea-level tracks in the Mid-Atlantic take a hit w/ the summer heat & high humidity; it ain't always mineshaft air quality here, either. It could have easily been 5+ degrees hotter and closer to 100% humidity, which would have jacked the DA up even more.




But then again we don’t brag about mid August runs do we. Lol. Guys post up that one 9.52 number when it was 52 degrees, 29.20 barometer, and 10 percent humidity. Heck don’t ask me why but most of the test n tuners dont even check air conditions on their own gauges.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638172
03/28/19 05:02 PM
03/28/19 05:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Romulus, MI
GTS340 Offline
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by GTS340
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

I’m just stating the facts buddy. Don’t use mine as a comparison because it’s built as a weekly bracket racer with a solid lifter cam and a 850 carb. Not one trick go fast part on my engine. Heck I still run old school ring pacs. The test n tuners running the coastal states with killer air won’t even go out if the conditions aren’t in their favor. I’m not sure what’s up with Rays barracuda as I haven’t heard times from it in decades. Some of you still aren’t hearing me say I think the Gen3 is a great package and can run some great numbers but I also see guys having fitness issues a diving in before it’s planned out. I grew out of having powerful street cars over 30 years ago so for me personally a 10-11 second NA street car doesn’t interest me. Maybe it will when I get older to keep racing.


Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

Ohhhh ya and the old stuff keeps getting cheaper for me to buy. The Gen3’s are almost as fun beating at the track as the LS Chevy junk.


Don't use you as a comparison? Your quote about beating Gen3's at the track invited me to, besides I'd say it's more than a fair comparison, your 2800lb backhalfed, huge tire, strut front suspension bracket car on methanol vs pump gas street cars that weigh 500 lbs more



There you go again blaming “fat cars”. Every time you do you make my point again. And East coast racing is good for at least .15 towards a new best. Bring those cars inland to 2400-whatever air and add some humidity to it. Let’s see those numbers then NA. And that Washington guy has it down good. One of the 3 or so builds I would follow to those building them.


Not blaming fat cars at all, just stating that they run what you run at a lot more weight, what would Triple Threats 392 that pushes his 3400lb car to 9.70s do in your 2800lb car? Or Ray's pumpgas 426? Which is a very mild build
Can any idiot not make a 2800lb car run a respectable number?

Last edited by GTS340; 03/28/19 05:09 PM.
Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: madscientist] #2638177
03/28/19 05:12 PM
03/28/19 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by BradH
Originally Posted by 1980volare
All the SB and bb guys are mad cause they have $2000+ heads that don’t flow what stock pre eagle heads flow...

OK, so, what do stock pre-Eagle heads flow?

And what's the best OEM Gen III head available on a street-legal production car flow?

Honestly, I'm curious what data your claim is based upon.



Never try and have a discussion with a guy who thinks airflow numbers mean something. For the most part, they don't. I can make 300 CFM on early W-2 castings all day long. Who cares? Guys talking flow either have never ported heads to the point where they have been paid for it, or they just don't know what they are talking about.


While you're right about head flow discissions, I will bite on this with the disclaimer that I am not a cylinder head PRO, but I do know my way around the flow bench.

Our bench is stingy, but calculated on a regular basis...still seems to be stingy.

My fresh VJ stock Eagles went 297 @ .600"

My non fresh VJ used non-Eagles went @ 266 @ .600"

**Flowed on a 3.950 fixture

The best OE G3 head are the Apache versions - They reportedly see 325-340 cfm depending on the bench. 400 cfm on those babies is cake I am told.

I have $470 out of pocket cost in my Eagles, that ultimately went .326/.226, including rockers, shafts and new springs/retainers/locks, ready to bolt on. Bang. For. The. Buck.

Last edited by cudadoug; 03/28/19 05:46 PM.
Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638181
03/28/19 05:17 PM
03/28/19 05:17 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer

But then again we don’t brag about mid August runs do we. Lol. Guys post up that one 9.52 number when it was 52 degrees, 29.20 barometer, and 10 percent humidity. Heck don’t ask me why but most of the test n tuners dont even check air conditions on their own gauges.


If you are referring to me, it was 64 degrees, air was at 1012ft, 95% humidity as it had just stopped raining a few hours prior. Baro was at 29.83. This was at a track rental that took place the day prior to the Season Opener of the Modern Street Hemi Shootout Series, for which I race in. This years kick off was at South Georgia Motosports Park. Unfortunately, the rain never went away and the event got rained out.

Enjoy the data........discredit as you see fit.

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638183
03/28/19 05:19 PM
03/28/19 05:19 PM
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Canada
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So your hero times in your avatar were in terrible conditions? Right

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: GTS340] #2638185
03/28/19 05:33 PM
03/28/19 05:33 PM
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Posts: 20,116
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Not blaming fat cars at all, just stating that they run what you run at a lot more weight, what would Triple Threats 392 that pushes his 3400lb car to 9.70s do in your 2800lb car? Or Ray's pumpgas 426? Which is a very mild build
Can any idiot not make a 2800lb car run a respectable number?


Not necessarily true. Most guys can't build a high 10 second car let alone a low 9 second car. I've even watched guys have profession engine builders do an engine for them and it can't run a respectable number because they can't set up a car. LOL

Its always fun having internet discussions with "cement heads" only to find out they don't or never did have a car. Maybe DADDY did at one time long ago. PLEASE tell us YOUR story GTS340. Have you ever raced and what were YOUR numbers. Or is that GTS340 just a pipe dream or is it something you park under the maple trees at the car shows. I can't wait to hear YOUR racing stories. For tomorrows lesson we will touch on the different ways and differences between how Bracket cars are set up and how test n tuners set up for faster ET's instead of consistency. Stay tuned or should we start a new post for this subject?


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: WO23Coronet] #2638189
03/28/19 05:49 PM
03/28/19 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WO23Coronet
So your hero times in your avatar were in terrible conditions? Right


But he was only shifting at 6700...

Also, he saved a ton by switching to Geico.

Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2638198
03/28/19 06:10 PM
03/28/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Romulus, MI
GTS340 Offline
mopar
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Romulus, MI
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Not blaming fat cars at all, just stating that they run what you run at a lot more weight, what would Triple Threats 392 that pushes his 3400lb car to 9.70s do in your 2800lb car? Or Ray's pumpgas 426? Which is a very mild build
Can any idiot not make a 2800lb car run a respectable number?


Not necessarily true. Most guys can't build a high 10 second car let alone a low 9 second car. I've even watched guys have profession engine builders do an engine for them and it can't run a respectable number because they can't set up a car. LOL

Its always fun having internet discussions with "cement heads" only to find out they don't or never did have a car. Maybe DADDY did at one time long ago. PLEASE tell us YOUR story GTS340. Have you ever raced and what were YOUR numbers. Or is that GTS340 just a pipe dream or is it something you park under the maple trees at the car shows. I can't wait to hear YOUR racing stories. For tomorrows lesson we will touch on the different ways and differences between how Bracket cars are set up and how test n tuners set up for faster ET's instead of consistency. Stay tuned or should we start a new post for this subject?


Nope, never raced anything other than a BMX bike. I live in my aunties basement with my cats. I bought a killer heads up car years ago but will never do anything with it as I realize my life long aspiration is to some day bracket race and talk about how fast I am

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