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Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: Supercuda] #2636583
03/24/19 07:02 PM
03/24/19 07:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury Offline
mopar
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SW CO
I've never had to use a press to change control arm bushings. Just a piece of pipe, all thread and large washers.


'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2636586
03/24/19 07:03 PM
03/24/19 07:03 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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Originally Posted by mopower440
I like this idea! So they are literally ready to bolt back in the car besides painting them? Do they need primer first or is this coating on them ready to accept paint? These alone seem like they could help me a lot..Im not sure how hard the bushings would be to replace by our front end guy at work with our press so maybe have to do this.. Are they hard to replace even when you have a press?


they don't need paint.
http://www.firmfeel.com/a_body_mopar_upper_control_arms.html

http://www.firmfeel.com/a_body_mopar_lower_control_arm_reinforcement.html

but it is a significant cost over pressing out and unscrewing pieces and bolting this stuff back in instead.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: Andrewh] #2636598
03/24/19 07:30 PM
03/24/19 07:30 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,680
Florida
BDW Online content
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Highly unlikely you need torsion bars, leave them alone.
Buy the preassembled upper control arms and bolt them in.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2636626
03/24/19 08:43 PM
03/24/19 08:43 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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The torsion bars are not usually too hard to get out. But once in a while one will be difficult. I use a 1" rope clamp on them and hammer on it for the really difficult ones. Cheap, handy and effective.


Master, again and still
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: DaveRS23] #2636644
03/24/19 09:17 PM
03/24/19 09:17 PM
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Posts: 7,979
Scranton, PA
Montclaire Offline
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Some people (I think Eberg described them as "shivvy cretins") will clamp a vice grip onto the t-bar and smack it with a hammer to drive it out. You want to avoid this because any grooves that you cut into the bar can cause it to splinter later. The factory made a tool to remove the bars without damaging them, but there are other ways.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: Montclaire] #2636667
03/24/19 09:47 PM
03/24/19 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Montclaire
Some people (I think Eberg described them as "shivvy cretins") will clamp a vice grip onto the t-bar and smack it with a hammer to drive it out. You want to avoid this because any grooves that you cut into the bar can cause it to splinter later. The factory made a tool to remove the bars without damaging them, but there are other ways.


ah, now i understand how they come out when you said they clamp vise grips to them and hit them to make them come out! Thank you! Now it makes sense..i wasnt sure what was meant about using a special tool to get them out.. SO, how does the special tool work without clamping onto them? (im hoping i can grab them and pull them out with my hands, but probably just wishful thinking)

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2636728
03/24/19 11:28 PM
03/24/19 11:28 PM
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Scranton, PA
Montclaire Offline
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The factory tool is a two piece clamp with a diamond shaped hole. Think "wall-drive" socket. I have to wonder if you could slip a piece of hose over the bar, and attach the vice grip over that. It might take a little longer but if it doesn't nick or scratch the bar, it should be ok.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2636849
03/25/19 09:43 AM
03/25/19 09:43 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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I have removed and helped remove literally dozens and dozens ( heck, maybe hundreds) of torsion bars over the years but have never seen one of the factory tools 'in the field'. And I have seen many bars with serious marks on them from previous removals. But in all my years working on these cars, I can only remember seeing a couple of broken bars. And we often used old 6 cylinder bars under our big blocks along with weak shocks to 'help' with the launch. Torsion bars are not indestructible, but they are really tough.

Usually, removing the lower control arm shaft nut and then prying the LCA back and forth will break the torsion bar loose enough to be able to work it on back and then on out of the sockets. But occasionally, a bar will resist coming out of the sockets enough that it will require being driven back. That means getting a hold of the round shaft with enough grip that a hammer can be deployed. This is where the Vice Grips can come in. And they can work, but will leave deep gouges in the bar. Definitely not good.

The challenge is to be able to grip the round bar with enough grip to be able to hammer it back and yet not damage the bar.

Rope clamps are about the only handy items I know of that have enough grip on the bar without damaging the bar so that it can be driven out. And I have seen bars stuck bad enough that they needed 2 rope clamps backing each other to provide enough grip.

For a guy like the OP that is only likely to pull one set of bars, what are his choices to remove a difficult bar without damaging it?


Master, again and still
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: DaveRS23] #2636863
03/25/19 09:59 AM
03/25/19 09:59 AM
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23

For a guy like the OP that is only likely to pull one set of bars, what are his choices to remove a difficult bar without damaging it?


I made a poor man's tool. Took two pieces of 2x4 and screwed them together to make a 4x4. Drilled a hole down the middle through the seam where the two meet. Drill the hole with a wood bit a smaller diameter than your bars. I can't remember what size I used, 3/4 probably. Clamp the pieces of wood around the bar and fire in a couple screws to keep the wood aligned. Then clamp the hell out of it with 3 or 4 big c-clamps. Then hammer away on the wood. Do it right and the wood can grab good but not mark up the bar.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2637020
03/25/19 04:06 PM
03/25/19 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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The T-bars are always cocked into the LCA socket. Take a pipe wrench to the LCA socket and uncock the T-bar. Pretty much falls out.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: Dave Hall] #2637072
03/25/19 06:35 PM
03/25/19 06:35 PM
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Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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middle Tennessee
I got out in the garage today and got the car on jackstands and removed the wheels and sprayed everything with PB blaster, the stupid can ran out of pressure with it still being 3/4 full of oil..Makes me mad, what a waste, so i will go buy more. I got the shocks took off. I started on the torsion bar tension and stopped because i am not sure on which way to go to loosen the tension. Im ASSUMING its the normal counter clockwise to remove the tension from them? Also, if it IS counter clockwise, is it that way on both sides or is one side reversed..?

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2637075
03/25/19 06:39 PM
03/25/19 06:39 PM
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Posts: 2,914
Calgary, Alberta Canada
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One way is tighter and the other way is looser (the looser is the way you want to go . . .) . . .

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2637076
03/25/19 06:40 PM
03/25/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury Offline
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Both sides the same. CCW to loosen. Righty tighty and lefty loosy.


'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: HemiSportFury] #2637517
03/26/19 09:44 PM
03/26/19 09:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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middle Tennessee
wheres the cheapest place to buy moog lower ball joints?

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2637549
03/27/19 12:21 AM
03/27/19 12:21 AM
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Utah and Alaska
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Amazon


1941 Taylorcraft
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1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

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Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2637621
03/27/19 09:36 AM
03/27/19 09:36 AM
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Posts: 11,892
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Benton, IL.
I have only used Moog for many, many years, but they are now made overseas and I actually got a counterfeit set a couple of years ago.

Proforged is my go-to ball joint now. Available at most places including Rockauto, Amazon and Jegs.


Master, again and still
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: DaveRS23] #2637627
03/27/19 09:47 AM
03/27/19 09:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
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Scranton, PA
Montclaire Offline
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I buy a lot from Rock Auto, only one issue so far when I got the wrong product in the right box. Since Moog is crap anymore I just buy what's ever middle of the pack price-wise. I'm guessing it would take most of us a couple decades to put 40-50k on the odometer, so really what does it matter.

Last edited by Montclaire; 03/27/19 09:49 AM.
Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: mopower440] #2637644
03/27/19 10:05 AM
03/27/19 10:05 AM
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Pikes Peak Country
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There are only two potential gotchas in this deal, otherwise everything is straight forward mechanical work. 1st, release tension off the torsion bars. Do this and they are safer and easier to work with than coil springs. 2nd, upper ball joints require a special socket. If you don't want to borrow or rent this socket, than any machine shop can screw in the replacement ball joints for you. I trust you have machine shops near by enough to support your engine work. They can also hot tank parts to clean them and press bushings into your control arms.

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: DaveRS23] #2637672
03/27/19 11:14 AM
03/27/19 11:14 AM
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Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline
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FYI Mancini has a complete kit for doing the job $160 on sale. I have it but have not used it yet so I cannot speak for it's function.

https://www.manciniracing.com/unfrsuprotok.html

Re: Cant drive my dart anymore [Re: challenger70] #2638758
03/30/19 10:24 AM
03/30/19 10:24 AM
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The Swamp
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If you are removing the lower control arms then there is no need for a special tool to remove to torsion bars. Loosen the big nut holding the lca pin that goes thru the k member WITH THE T BAR AT FULL TENSION. That will help to hold the pin in place and not spin if the LCA bushing is tore up. Once the nut is cracked loose on the LCA pin, THEN loosen the t bar adjuster. Pull the clip out of the end of the t bar socket on the trans x member. Unbolt the lower BJ from the spindle or remove the lower bj from the control arm.. Unbolt the control arm strut from the k frame. Use a big pry bar, screwdriver, tie rod fork, whatever, and pry between the k frame and lower control arm. The t bar will come out with the lower control arm.
If you are going to replace the bushings, REPLACE THEM ALL - STRUT ROD, LOWER CTL ARM AND UPPER CTL ARM. Yea. it's a lot, but all of them are important to hold the alignment - any of them shot and all your other work is for nothing.

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