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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#2636821
03/25/19 09:11 AM
03/25/19 09:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Just my opinion...I don't care for the G3 engine in an older car. They have the potential to make big power and strong stock parts, so that is nice.
I despise fuel injection on a performance car. Unless you buy the program to do it yourself, you have to take it to your "tuner" to adjust for every little thing. I much prefer a big single plane intake and old "dinosaur tech" carbs.
While I have not had a G3 hemi car, I did play in the GM LS world for a little while w/ a '00 Silverado and a '02 Z28 Camaro. Both pretty quick for daily drivers. I think I'm just a little too old school for this stuff, even though most guys my age aren't playing w/ old tech cars.
The biggest thing that annoys me is the newer generation of so called "gearheads" that probably never get dirty spinning wrenches and the #1 topic of conversation at the track is "who did your tune?" Followed up w/ "what catback are you running?" Most of the new guys w/ challengers at the track don't even know what my car is, lol.
I do appreciate the engines and what they can do, It's just not my preference when it comes to "hot rodding" I guess.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#2636880
03/25/19 10:18 AM
03/25/19 10:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,080
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,080
Benton, IL.
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There is little doubt as to the superiority of the Gen 111 stuff. But I think that it's biggest hurdle with most of us here is the learning curve. We have all wrenched on our big blocks and small blocks for many years. And in that time we have acquired a good amount of hard earned parts, knowledge and contacts. With the Gen 111 stuff, it is almost like switching brands. Lots of new parts, knowledge, and contacts have to be acquired in order to deal with them as comfortably and successfully as we have our older stuff. For many of us, it's just too much, too late.
And on a personal note, just leave the Gen 111 stuff and the oversized wheels with short tires on the late model cars. None of it looks right on our dinosaurs.
Master, again and still
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2636957
03/25/19 01:06 PM
03/25/19 01:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Geezo...my big block/small block/Gen III is better than your big block/small block/Gen III. LOL. They're ALL good depending on your wants and needs.
I wanted a pump gas, drive anywhere 10 second A-body STREET car. That would have required a big block, rowdy small block or forced induction. Neither of which I wanted.
For me, the conversion to the G III platform started with the heads. 300 cfm STOCK? Yea, right. Snagged a pair of stock Eagle heads and rockers for $400. I touched up the VJ and put them on the flow bench. Not quite 300 cfm, but pretty close. Broke out the grinder and added about 6 hours of very cautious labor. Results: 326 cfm @ .600”. 299 cfm @ .500”. Bottom line, with a deal on some 1511 beehive springs, I have (counting a fictitious $50/hour in my labor) $870 in 326/226 cfm aluminum heads.
Then I lucked out and SCORED a 5.7 block, non-eagle heads and misc parts from a guy who was moving and cleaning out the garage. $60. Yes, that is not a typo. Right place at the right time for once! Super lucky in that it turns out to be a MP crate motor block that someone robbed the rotating assembly out of. Interesting to note that the pre 09 non-eagle heads as is, untouched went 266 cfm @ .600 “…
Most stuff is comparatively priced right with traditional big/small block stuff, such as:
Forged, quality rotating kit (4.05 crank = 392") - $2100
Swap oil pan and pick up - $350
TTI swap headers - $679
Even a custom ground (hyd roller) cam was only $360!
My only pricing complaint is the lack of reasonably priced, 4150, single plane intake manifolds. I'm having to spend $570 and wait three months for it. I guess the real compliant is the just the availability, since I didn't have to spend $700-800 on rockers...or $2500 on heads!
Again, this is NOT a super high dollar 800+ HP race motor. It has been proven that when you get to that space, the cost vs. traditional HP is about the same. However, in my case I’ll have right at $4500 in a manifold to pan motor that should be capable 575+ HP on CA pump swill.
The added bonus to DaveRS23's point. I get to learn about something new, make new contacts and add more metric tools to my box!
Last edited by cudadoug; 03/25/19 01:18 PM.
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2636962
03/25/19 01:21 PM
03/25/19 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Mopar really dropped the ball on the gen3 hemis. This doesn’t go with that and that doesn’t go with this. I laugh when I see guys buying and selling only to buy again. You gotta be a nasa scientists to figure it all out and in the end most are still slower than 40 year old technology. I’ll pass but I may buy your old school junk. Lol 😂 Yeah and 360 cranks won't fit in 340s and 3 different small block bolt patterns, 2 stock port sizes and a 3rd aftermarket port to get 350CFM, aftermarket blocks are starting around $3000 and retro fit roller cams cost as much as a gen III cam, a 350+ CFM head is thousands of dollars. I still build LA and magnum motors but it is hard to argue the whole NASA scientist thing for gen III, if I can finger it out a caveman can.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2637023
03/25/19 04:12 PM
03/25/19 04:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 24
PA
1118Steve
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 24
PA
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It's the future. Get used to it. As a Gen II Hemi guy, pure and simple, I'm associated with a good size auto lot and I can guarantee you we have a lot more Gen III Hemi Challengers on the lot than we do cross ram Hemi 65 Dodges.
They fly. Any combo that can push a 3500 lbs, all steel Challenger FSS car into the 7s at 170 plus mph impresses the stuffing out of me. For sure. And, for rank and file guys, that Scat Pack Challenger with a transbrake, line loc, drive it in, take your cooler out of the trunk, get in the staging lanes, run 11.70, at the end of the day put your cooler back in the trunk and drive home.
Yeah. They impress me.
Last edited by 1118Steve; 03/25/19 04:15 PM.
"Old Age and Treachery beats youth and enthusiasm"
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: Airwoofer]
#2637247
03/26/19 08:19 AM
03/26/19 08:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I have tried and failed at getting my BB's into my A bodies and thus am VERY interested in a gen 3. It has to be stout though on pump swill.
The Helliphant seems to be vaporware. I have been told by one of their dealers that the company that built the two we know of has not been contracted to make more. And no info from FIAT. You HAD/bought one of the baddest big block A bodies on the planet.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2637364
03/26/19 01:34 PM
03/26/19 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Mopar really dropped the ball on the gen3 hemis. This doesn’t go with that and that doesn’t go with this. I laugh when I see guys buying and selling only to buy again. You gotta be a nasa scientists to figure it all out and in the end most are still slower than 40 year old technology. I’ll pass but I may buy your old school junk. Lol 😂 I'll informed. But in your position i would not switch either. You have tons of spare parts. G3 love or hate it it is just another way of getting to where you want to go. Matt
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: cudadoug]
#2637366
03/26/19 01:40 PM
03/26/19 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Geezo...my big block/small block/Gen III is better than your big block/small block/Gen III. LOL. They're ALL good depending on your wants and needs.
I wanted a pump gas, drive anywhere 10 second A-body STREET car. That would have required a big block, rowdy small block or forced induction. Neither of which I wanted.
For me, the conversion to the G III platform started with the heads. 300 cfm STOCK? Yea, right. Snagged a pair of stock Eagle heads and rockers for $400. I touched up the VJ and put them on the flow bench. Not quite 300 cfm, but pretty close. Broke out the grinder and added about 6 hours of very cautious labor. Results: 326 cfm @ .600”. 299 cfm @ .500”. Bottom line, with a deal on some 1511 beehive springs, I have (counting a fictitious $50/hour in my labor) $870 in 326/226 cfm aluminum heads.
Then I lucked out and SCORED a 5.7 block, non-eagle heads and misc parts from a guy who was moving and cleaning out the garage. $60. Yes, that is not a typo. Right place at the right time for once! Super lucky in that it turns out to be a MP crate motor block that someone robbed the rotating assembly out of. Interesting to note that the pre 09 non-eagle heads as is, untouched went 266 cfm @ .600 “…
Most stuff is comparatively priced right with traditional big/small block stuff, such as:
Forged, quality rotating kit (4.05 crank = 392") - $2100
Swap oil pan and pick up - $350
TTI swap headers - $679
Even a custom ground (hyd roller) cam was only $360!
My only pricing complaint is the lack of reasonably priced, 4150, single plane intake manifolds. I'm having to spend $570 and wait three months for it. I guess the real compliant is the just the availability, since I didn't have to spend $700-800 on rockers...or $2500 on heads!
Again, this is NOT a super high dollar 800+ HP race motor. It has been proven that when you get to that space, the cost vs. traditional HP is about the same. However, in my case I’ll have right at $4500 in a manifold to pan motor that should be capable 575+ HP on CA pump swill.
The added bonus to DaveRS23's point. I get to learn about something new, make new contacts and add more metric tools to my box!
A set of stock eagle heads will flow more than 300 CFM on a 4 inch bore. Mine went a tad less that my CNC 230 indy's with the oval ports. They where actually better than the 230 in the mid and upper other than peak. Matt
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: MattW]
#2637376
03/26/19 02:01 PM
03/26/19 02:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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For me the G3 is the only way to go because of one simple fact.
AVAILABILITY!!!!!!!
The produced more G3 that LA and big blocks combined!!!
Matt When I see a GIII hemi or LS junker run N/A like I see other engines run N/A then I'll be impressed. Everyone is talking about some blown or turbo junk. You can put a hair dyer on a lawn mower and it will be impressive. I'm an N/A guy. Always will be. Just look at Street Outlaws. Even those knuckleheads can make power with help.
Last edited by madscientist; 03/26/19 02:02 PM.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: madscientist]
#2637384
03/26/19 02:40 PM
03/26/19 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
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Starting with nothing Gen 3 is a good way to go. Tired of LS everything. I am from the Gen 2 era Hemi. Take what the new Technology has to offer with tune and fuel management and adapt it to the Big Cube, very high flowing head of a Gen 2 with a Turbo and have fun, Everyone can not have the same thing that would make this world very boring.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Does the Gen III hemi impress you?
[Re: cuda499]
#2637426
03/26/19 04:54 PM
03/26/19 04:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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What I find funny is Mopar guys be-itched about electronics in cars when we started adding them to our race cars. Now the electronics run everything in these cars. I personally love that they are available for the Mopar guys to tell the truth. If I was young one of my cars would have one because I’m tired of knowing what they are capable but not seeing it because of weight. Mine would be a lite weight for sure. The ones I see look tight in a stock frontend A body but there again I wouldn’t have a stock frontend. Do they ev n offer a race header yet for one in an A body? Kudos to the guys forging the way and saving guys time and money which in the end helps everyone
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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