I'm going to set up a 68 Dodge Crew cab long bed to be a camper hauler, race trailer tow rig. It will be 2 wd a dually rear, 450/4500 level suspension and brakes, exhaust brake, etc. It will be Diesel. So I own 2 potential donor vehicles: 1 is a 98 12 valve ram 3500 4x4 automatic with 150,000 miles; the other is a 97 E350 2 wd dually cube van with a power stroke, with 130,000 miles. Both vehicles have about the same $ value right now.

The cummins would be a no-brainer, except for the fact that it won't fit without either stretching the front fenders and hood (hard/expensive), or putting a doghouse in the firewall. With my long legs and big feet, I don't like the doghouse idea too much. The Powerstroke would fit very well with no body mods.

Dodge doesn't actually built the cummins, and ford didn't butild the Navistar 7.3 powerstroke, so to me, the brand doesn't mean much.

So what are the pros and cons of going either way, other than pissing off all the loyal cummins fans?

people have successfully put the non intercooled cummins in there. it is tight but it has been done without the doghouse or stretching the nose

Climbing mountains at 20,000 lbs, should I consider running sans intercooler?

After the last 16 years of towing with and modifying my 93 12 valve, I know its capabilities. Can a PS be as reliable for heavy towing? is it easy to crank up the power like a 12 valve?

I run my VE pump dually non intercooled, 5x14 injectors, maxed pump, 4200 spring, stage 5 pin, s362sxe turbo. at 60psi of boost I do see EGT around 1600, but if you really needed it, you could go to meth injection. could also get creative with a side mount intercooler

Well let's just look around a bit shall we? I see many, many Fords with Cummins engines swapped into them and there is even a company called "Destroked" that specializes in the swap. What I don't see ever is Power Jokes swapped into Dodges and there is no company specializing in that. Hmm I don't think we need to be a rocket surgeon to figure out why do we?

SO the power stroke idea is going over like a fart in church...

I'd hate to see you wreck the 98 to pull the Cummins out of. I hate the sound of a V8 Diesel, it's just like nails on a chalkboard. Too bad a 4BT is a bit small for what you want to do.

The 98 3500 is already trashed. The bed is missing, the cab is rusty, the tires are bald, the brakes are shot, the front axle doesn't engage, and the front end is worn out. Too much $ to fix it compared to the value of the cummins, the trans and the dana 80. The powerstroke van is actually in very good shape for it's age, but no one wants to pay much for a 22 year old cube van.

So the 97 powerstroke isn't much of a motor you think? Or is it brand loyalty that's the issue? THe cummins has very little electronics, so that's a plus. I like stuff I can fix and maintain my self, and i'm no computer/electronics wizzard.

II think the old powerstrokes were okay for reliability and can be hopped up a bit so they aren't so doggy. They aren't as good as a Cummins but they're pretty good overall. I'm not kidding when I say I absolutely hate the sound though.

Dad and my Uncle ran 8V92 Detroit's for years...pretty sweet sound

Personal experience with the fuel mileage in a Power Joke is enough for me to say go Cummins. Besides, PJ's make a lot of noise for very little power compared to a Cummins...

Some of those earlier ones have that stupid indirect injection set up where the injector and fuel gets fired in a small prechamber then on to the piston and combustion chamber. Makes them dirty, stink even worse, slow starting and noisy. They just sound lazy. A little research tells me the 97 is direct injected and uses the stupid high pressure oil pump to fire the injector. If the oil is degraded it doesn't run well or might not even start. Then, if you don't drain the oil manifold when changing injectors you can bend valves and pushrods when you try to start it. Those injectors can also leak fuel into the oil and ruin an engine. This used to be pretty common on the DTT466 engines we used to see at the truck shop.

Some of those vans had a 6.9L in them not the 7.3L.

Yeah but those old Detroits were a 2 stroke engine.

Sounds to me like you already know the correct answer. Reliability, mileage, and easy to crank up the power.

After reading all the reply's, I have to jump in on this. First off im gonna tell you I am VERY familiar with the 7.3 power stroke. VERY. The 97 7.3 you have is direct injected and uses a high pressure oil system to fire the injectors. The reason I am so familiar is I have repaired what seems like every one in the north east. Not to say it is not a good engine but it has its issues. Injectors are not cheap but not crazy expensive. also there are 8 not 6 like the cummins. the non electronic cummins is very reliable except for the pump which is not cheap. the 7.3 has many places for oil leaks. it has a high pressure oil system to run the injectors as well as a harness that is problematic with age and a glow plug system that it needs to start . To swap in the 7.3 you will need to use all the electronics from the ford and adapt that stuff to your old dodge truck. that means both the ford PCM and the IDM that runs the engine. The 7.3 will make plenty of power but is very thirsty. I cant believe that the cummins wont fit in that engine compartment it fits in my 89? then the year after that dodge figured out how to fit an intercooler in too. How deep is the engine bay in that year truck? I think the cummins would be a better swap but the 7.3 is not undoable. Just a lot more work and potently more expensive in repairs down the road. You have a lot of thinking to do and personally I think its a waste of time and money. Just go buy a newer truck with a diesel in it that will do all the things you want. Good luck

Well, the current issue (May) of Mopar Collectors Guide has an article about a Farmer-Son duo putting TWO 5.9 Cummins with 4 turbochargers in a '70 Sweptline. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. The deed happened in Illinoisy (those Farm guys get bored in the Winter and start cutting and welding on something and there is nobody around to tell them it cannot be done!). The Truck did go to SEMA.

TWIN ENGINE TERROR

And.....(different links)

Just was trouble shooting a 6.0 POwer Stroke (POS) this weekend. No pressure from the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) which is mounted in the valley of the engine so everything on top needs to come off to fix it

I have seen probably a dozen 61-71 Sweptlines with Cummins engine in them. Not a hard swap, and they will fit with some creative cooling placement.

Thanks for all the info, guys. I suppose I ought to use the Cummins. I just have to figure out how to squeeze it in there. Rhino, everything I'v e read says you can't fitthe intercooler if you don't dog house the firewall. I would be interested in any pics or links that show a better way.

I would be interested in any pics or links that show a better way.

Did you look at the links I posted? Don't know that it's 'better'. but on the twin cummins truck, they put the cooling in the bed.

Thanks but that cooling system in the bed would not work for what I am doing. I'll have a big camper in the bed. Their radiators look pretty small. I don't think they would be adequate for the heavy load I'm hauling and pulling. That's probably good enough to get them in and out of the shows.

Hmmmmm.........How about putting an intercooler in the fender like the import crowd does? A little ducting and maybe a fan...

(just throwing stuff out to see if anything sticks. I have zero experience with this sort of thing)

The Sweptlines were built with slant 6s in them, there is a bit of room front to back. Then there is a lot of radiator support not used with the 26" wide radiators and space taken up by batteries that the Cummings doesn't occupy. There should be plenty of space under that hood to get enough air flow to cool an intercooler. I've seen things a lot bigger then that Cummings in a lot smaller space that that Sweptline has under the hood without cooling issues. Sometimes a person needs to do a bit of planning. Gene

How is the 98 chassis? I'd be looking into putting the Sweptline cab etc on the later chassis. Power steering and disc brakes already installed.


Kevin

on my truck i ditched the fan clutch for an after market fan and didnt have room for an intercooler-----but i dont do much towing with my truck---the 89 to mid 91 trucks werent intercooled either

That's something to look into. I'm not sure how it would fit.

Nice to see your swepty/Cummins!
It will need an intercooler, going up mountains at 20,000+ pounds.

Is the frame on a 1968 truck capable of handing a 20,000 pound load? It seems like those 1960's trucks had a maximum tow rating of 7,000 or 8,000 pounds from the factory. I know very little about the 1971 and older trucks, so maybe this concern isn't an issue.

If I use the 68 frame, it would be seriously beefed up.

We put a 70 short box sweppy on a 78 short box frame, it fit like it was made for it. I think we trimmed off the top of the frame above the rear axle on the 78 frame, and had to relocate the front 2 box mounts and the radiator support brackets.
That tells me the Sweepy sheet metal should fit pretty well on up to the 93 frame. I don't know how the 98 frame compares to the 73-93 frame. Gene

This one didn't cut the firewall:

https://s344.photobucket.com/user/Dezel_Ingen/library/1970%20dodge%20D200%20build?page=1

That is a really nice and clean insallation. I like the hydraboost as well. Really nicely done.

Can you plop the old Dodge body on the 98 Dodge frame ??

I see twostick beat me to that question.

Well, I sold the Powerstroke van yesterday, a guy made me a pretty nice offer. So the old Dodge crew cab is safe for now.

Ha, ha.

On thank God, prayers were answered.

I have a friend who started his Dodge truck ownership with a 1995 3500 two wheel drive dully five speed 12 valve Cummins, he was a over the road big rig truck driver before getting hurt in a on the road truck accident and had owned a bunch of Chevy trucks
He ended up hopping that truck up so he could haul a 48 Ft goose neck race trailer, he change the pump, injectors, torbo and finally put in a U.S. Gear two speed auxiliary tranny so he could back the rig up in a lower gear than the five speed had in reverse
He had used a 12.5 ft. cab over camper with a 24 Ft. enclosed race trailer to go racing but his wife told him if he had a better rig she would go to the long races more with him so he stepped way up to the new custom built big 48 Ft. trailer with the living quarters.
He picked it up in Denver, CO and told me when he got home to SO CA that he hadn't towed it over five miles before he hated that trailer He raced with it a little over a year before giving it away for take over payments
His wife went to the races with him twice in that year, he raced a lot back then.
They are divorced now .
I use to see a lot of talk on the CTD web site about the 12 valves making more power than the EFI motors did