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Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart #2634762
03/20/19 11:11 AM
03/20/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,545
DC, MD Suburbs
440PURSUIT Offline OP
pro stock
440PURSUIT  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,545
DC, MD Suburbs
I just finished a customer car that bought a PST kit.
he had many wrong parts as his car was a 67/69/73 disc brake 69 Dart

So this consisted of total disassembly, clean and recondition, all parts, install new bushings and Ball Joints. Pitman arm, clearance header,
dismantle another correct Steering assembly for donor parts, waiting for correct parts, reinstall all

What do you think a fair price is for this service?
He agreed to $65 hours and I have 30 hours total including some wiring and e brake fixes.

Last edited by 440PURSUIT; 03/20/19 11:14 AM.

1969 Hemi Charger R/T,
1970 Charger 472 Hemi 6 Sp
1969 Charger Pro Tour Project
1971 Barracuda Convert
1970 440 6pack Superbird,
1968 Fury I Police Pursuit 440 Super Commando 2 door sedan (Black/Blue)
1967 Barracuda Convert
1968 Barracuda Coupe
1972 Charger w 383
1972 Sebring Plus 440-6 Clone
1969 Coronet Pro Street
2009 Challengeer SRT8 stick
1992-1986 Body 2500 4x4 440 stick
1982 Ramcharger 318 Sniper- getting enhanced.
1997 Ram B3500 Van 5.9
1991.5 W250 Cummins- Big Chief
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2634774
03/20/19 11:37 AM
03/20/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 145
Australia
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dodgy Offline
member
dodgy  Offline
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Posts: 145
Australia
last one I done on an aussie charger, I did it for $360 owner supplied parts.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2634778
03/20/19 11:46 AM
03/20/19 11:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

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Posts: 30,945
Oregon
Yeah that is the problem with paying a shop rate for that type of work, especially on an older car that is going to require a bunch of fussing with. Good luck.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: AndyF] #2634795
03/20/19 12:09 PM
03/20/19 12:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,545
DC, MD Suburbs
440PURSUIT Offline OP
pro stock
440PURSUIT  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,545
DC, MD Suburbs
a friend Shop Owner with a Demon says bill 9-10 for straight forward rebuild replace.

There was custom work too

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2634947
03/20/19 07:49 PM
03/20/19 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,193
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,193
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by 440PURSUIT
I just finished a customer car that bought a PST kit.
he had many wrong parts as his car was a 67/69/73 disc brake 69 Dart

So this consisted of total disassembly, clean and recondition, all parts, install new bushings and Ball Joints. Pitman arm, clearance header,
dismantle another correct Steering assembly for donor parts, waiting for correct parts, reinstall all

What do you think a fair price is for this service?
He agreed to $65 hours and I have 30 hours total including some wiring and e brake fixes.


Welcome to my world frown Everything I bolded = extra time. Especially the clean and recondition part. I do not think you are out of line at all. Customers don't always understand the BS we go through trying to make things right, especially when it's a conglomeration of parts or Bubba's been there before you.

twocents

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: TJP] #2634949
03/20/19 08:00 PM
03/20/19 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

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Posts: 14,889
up yours
I don't generally fart about with other people's rides anymore.

Because they don't want to pay what it costs to do it right but they sure will cry about anything that is wrong, whether you touched it or not.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: Supercuda] #2634958
03/20/19 08:22 PM
03/20/19 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
Remonds me of electric and or driveability problems.People dont understand you can have tons of hours chasing a problem.New cars are tons worse than old ones.Cant say how many hours the shop didnt charg.The best one is they want to know if an hour will be all they owe.Just have to tell them OK so many hours and when its done we stop.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: therocks] #2634979
03/20/19 09:00 PM
03/20/19 09:00 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,679
Florida
BDW Offline
master
BDW  Offline
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,679
Florida
Not disputing the time spent, but I think anybody would be a little surprised to get a ~$2000 bill for a front end rebuild.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: BDW] #2635012
03/20/19 11:04 PM
03/20/19 11:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,342
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
Too Many Posts
gtx6970  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 21,342
It's a dry heat
When I was younger I could do a complete front suspension rebuild like that in about 8 to 10 hours. ( not so sure I could do it that fast now though )

Its when you get into cleaning A arms and torsion bars and strut rods etc etc is where a lot of time can be tied up QUICKLY. So I could easily see 20 hours plus in that kind of time in the job
IMO, I wouldn't touch a front end rebuild like that for less than $1000 plus parts

Wiring is something I HATE to quote ahead of time. Most people have no idea how fast time can go by when chasing electrical gremlins

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2635023
03/20/19 11:37 PM
03/20/19 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,009
Howell, Michigan
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Hemidavey Offline
super stock
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,009
Howell, Michigan
Just finished a 68 at our shop, we have 26 hours in it. No disassembly of secondary unit.
Our rate 95 per hour.
Local shop labor rates range between 85 and 145 per hour, 95% of them will not work on old cars due to rust and difficulty in getting the correct parts.

Last edited by cudacar340; 03/21/19 08:19 AM.
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: Hemidavey] #2635034
03/21/19 12:08 AM
03/21/19 12:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack Offline
Lil Herman
moparpollack  Offline
Lil Herman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086

I thought $400 was generous when I did the last one. But I'm also working on rust free Arizona cars. Also I have all the tools and made tools for making the job move quicker.


56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: moparpollack] #2635036
03/21/19 12:21 AM
03/21/19 12:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
Jim_Lusk  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Probably 15 years ago a friend of mine paid $1,800 (parts included) for his '71 Barracuda front end rebuild at a local tire shop. I charged a buddy of mine $750 labor last year to rebuild the front end on his 1957 Coronet. I undercharged by a bit due to all the rusty parts, etc. I do hot tank, bead blast, and paint the hard parts. The labor should have been $1,500. All told, I made about $1k on the entire job as there were other things that needed to be done, but I think I made about $10/hour, if that.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2635091
03/21/19 08:23 AM
03/21/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406
New Jersey, USA
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yella71 Offline
pro stock
yella71  Offline
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Y

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406
New Jersey, USA
Shop owner to shop owner, when I do work like that I tell the customer Up front It will be charged as time and materials. When you start cleaning 45 years worth of grease/paint and road grime and then painting parts and all the other things that go along with it the time adds up. Im not here fixing this crap because I have nothing better to do and im good at what I do. I can put a set of pads and rotors on a Honda accord and make good money much faster and not clean anything. that takes an hour. A few of those a day is all I need. That said charge him what you feel is fair but show him your total hours for the job. If they don't like it they can spend 35 years learning how to do it. People pay to have their cars fixed because they cant do it. You have the knowledge, shop space and tools. all cost money. Just make sure its done right......Bill it out

Last edited by yella71; 03/21/19 08:28 AM.

71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air 99 sebring convertable 89 CTD pup
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: yella71] #2635097
03/21/19 08:55 AM
03/21/19 08:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted by yella71
Shop owner to shop owner, when I do work like that I tell the customer Up front It will be charged as time and materials. When you start cleaning 45 years worth of grease/paint and road grime and then painting parts and all the other things that go along with it the time adds up. Im not here fixing this crap because I have nothing better to do and im good at what I do. I can put a set of pads and rotors on a Honda accord and make good money much faster and not clean anything. that takes an hour. A few of those a day is all I need. That said charge him what you feel is fair but show him your total hours for the job. If they don't like it they can spend 35 years learning how to do it. People pay to have their cars fixed because they cant do it. You have the knowledge, shop space and tools. all cost money. Just make sure its done right......Bill it out


iagree The only time we would eat hours in a case like that is if the length of time it took to do the repair was because the tech didn't know what he was doing or if we didn't have the proper tools on hand and that made the job take longer than it should.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2635099
03/21/19 09:04 AM
03/21/19 09:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 755
Rochester, PA (near Pittsburgh...
1
1974 474 Duster Offline
super stock
1974 474 Duster  Offline
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1

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 755
Rochester, PA (near Pittsburgh...
We had my 73 Duster done a few years back. This was due to another issue we were not aware of at first. Anyways ordered the PST kit w/all Poly parts, thinking in the $500 range then. Well when it was pulled apart found the issue was not worn parts but the sleeve that holds the lower control arm in place. The weld cracked & was letting things go out of alignment. That actually was an easy fix once he found it. But it take a couple tear downs to locate it. When the car was in the air weight was holding that in place, then when lowered oops. Out of alignment again. Anyways he fixed that for a minimal fee. Overall w/my supplying the parts, it was still close the $1,000. Now that included the fix, installing all new bushing (not easy) proper front end alignment.
The car drives like new now, lets hope it stays that way.
Thanks, Ken

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2635527
03/22/19 11:06 AM
03/22/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23 Offline
master
71rm23  Offline
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Posts: 2,592
None
Originally Posted by DaytonaTurbo
Originally Posted by yella71
Shop owner to shop owner, when I do work like that I tell the customer Up front It will be charged as time and materials. When you start cleaning 45 years worth of grease/paint and road grime and then painting parts and all the other things that go along with it the time adds up. Im not here fixing this crap because I have nothing better to do and im good at what I do. I can put a set of pads and rotors on a Honda accord and make good money much faster and not clean anything. that takes an hour. A few of those a day is all I need. That said charge him what you feel is fair but show him your total hours for the job. If they don't like it they can spend 35 years learning how to do it. People pay to have their cars fixed because they cant do it. You have the knowledge, shop space and tools. all cost money. Just make sure its done right......Bill it out


iagree The only time we would eat hours in a case like that is if the length of time it took to do the repair was because the tech didn't know what he was doing or if we didn't have the proper tools on hand and that made the job take longer than it should.



iagree

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 71rm23] #2635573
03/22/19 12:53 PM
03/22/19 12:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,237
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
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Posts: 19,237
north of coder
somebody replied : "BUBBA was in there first".

well, i've been there, done that, got BUBBA'S t-shirt, and STILL had a TON of fixin' to do ! you never know what can happen when that can-o-worms come open. biggrin
beer

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: moparx] #2635594
03/22/19 02:17 PM
03/22/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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TonyS451  Offline
master

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Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
If you have a shop and a business with staff and overhead, then the hourly rate should be what it is. The customer should have a realistic idea of time involved upfront, or they might flip at the 2k invoice.. Obviously, there are some uknowns, but they should at least have a window of possibilities. If you do this stuff on the side in your garage or theirs, I don't think you can ask the same rate. There is also some risk on the customer side as to recourse if something goes wrong with the job. That being said, complete front end rebuild is a lot of work. With all the issues that can arise with 50 year seized up parts, who knows... There are so many variables


2 kids and a dog
Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2635718
03/22/19 09:51 PM
03/22/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,205
NW Arkansas
challengersteve Offline
top fuel
challengersteve  Offline
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Posts: 2,205
NW Arkansas
Hello, I also have a vintage auto repair - resto shop. If it took 30 hours to professionally complete the job then that is what he should be charged. Not to sound rude but if he agreed to time spent and that is what it took then that is what it is. If you even gave him a range of cost before and it was low then you may have an issue. We are VERY upfront with customers that everything is TIME SPENT at our shop rate and I supply the parts as I refuse to have a lift tied up waiting on a customer to get the parts to me. I have been in the repair business my whole life ( 35 years) and used to get stressed about this kind of thing but finally came to the realization that I have to make as much doing this kind of work as I would doing general repairs. I WILL NOT loose money because someone thinks it should be cheap. If they have an issue with time and materials then they are not the customer you need. As far as 30 hours for everything you described that sounds about right. The cleaning, blasting and painting eats up a LOT of time.

Re: Complete Front End Reuild -Labor Hours?? Dart [Re: 440PURSUIT] #2635723
03/22/19 10:13 PM
03/22/19 10:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 168
North Texas
TheTieWrapKid Offline
member
TheTieWrapKid  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 168
North Texas
$1950 - All new front end. Should drive great !







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