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Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in #2634132
03/18/19 06:03 PM
03/18/19 06:03 PM
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Philadelphia
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I had never rebuilt a transmission before but I bought a book and there wasn’t that much stuff in there- it all reminded me of a harley shovelhead and evo clutch packs. I just got done breaking in a fresh motor after a timy bit of valvetrain carnage and after tuning the idle I tried putting it in gear. Well I’ve idled and revved in every gear, let it sit in N while I checked and added fluid, made sure the axles were free to spin in N (truck is on jackstands for break in), there just is no jolt into any gear and the jacked up rear tires haven’t even threatened to spin in either direction.

Now I’m doing some reading online and I must have skipped the last chapter of that 727 book because I didn’t know to put it in N or gear so the pump can run to fill the converter and keep everything happy. “Why slam the gears at 2700 rpm” I thought. I never had a hotrod with an auto trans, I’ve just put used ones in and swapped converters before.

Everything had a nice swab of grease on it but the converter was dry. Funny because I know better- I always threw a quart in there before installing one. I just didn’t feel like making a mess and figured it’d fill up after a minute of running.

I have a deep pan and pickup and a tf2 kit installed on the trans, a cheap just above entry level 2500 stall B&M converter, and the cable shifter & lokar throttle pressure (kickdown) were properly installed. The pan had six or seven quarts in it and I put one more in after tuning my idle.

It looks like I’m going to be pulling the trans or maybe the whole driveline. What should I expect to find in there? I couldn’t have smoked the clutches because apparently there was never any line pressure frown The fluid on the dipstick still looks new. Maybe the converter, pump, and any seals that could be smoked from not getting oil? Any good parts sources?

Or am I jumping the gun and these symptoms could be from a mistake assembling the valve body?

Good thing I got a sense of humor! And it’s also good this is a toy I enjoy working on not my daily or business truck. I just wish I wasn’t learning so many lessons the hard way!

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634136
03/18/19 06:12 PM
03/18/19 06:12 PM
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If you have a production dipstick and tube you should run it and add fluid until it shows maybe a pint low. Add the fluid in neutral, or park.

With a dry converter, cooler and trans you will need more fluid.


If it still doesn’t turn the wheels on the stands - unless you have gauges, the quick way to see if you have fluid flow is to remive the rear cooler line (engine off) and have someone aim that’s line in to a clean pail or drain pan. Start the engine and see if you have flow - if not you have internal issues.

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634140
03/18/19 06:20 PM
03/18/19 06:20 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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If it was all fresh and new, it's gonna take more than 6 or 7 quarts with a deep pan.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: A727Tflite] #2634143
03/18/19 06:28 PM
03/18/19 06:28 PM
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Wow a response from “Transman” almost right away- you must be the guy to ask! Thanks for the response.

It’s got a lokar dipstick or maybe a knockoff? It’s a braided deal with a steel rope dipstick. It’s reading full in N idling and both trans cooler lines are dead cold. I’ll go pull the feed at the rad support and see if fluid even comes out.

Are you saying I might have bad info and 2500+ rpm for 25 mins in Park with a dry converter wouldn’t necessarily fry stuff? Total auto trans noob here

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634152
03/18/19 06:56 PM
03/18/19 06:56 PM
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Ok so I pulled a cooler line (the one from the rear of the trans) started the motor in N, and got no atf- just a couple drips. It should be a firehose of atf right?

Ugh. What are my options? Did I toast it doing motor break-in shifted to Park? Or more likely an assembly issue with the valve body? Should I expect to pull it and replace the converter and pump? Who sells that stuff that’s a go to guy here or board sponsor?

I’d love to just add atf and get hot rodding but Im guessing its not that kind of party at this point. Honestly if I could get a good trans and converter for less than $1000-1500 I’d be happy to just cut my losses and throw that in there but that’s frustration talking. I really want to find out what I did wrong and fix it, even though swapping transmissions under the car sucks and pulling the whole front clip to get the motor/trans together is a chore too.

It would be a good excuse to really finish my firewall and tunnel which was fabricated with the driveline in place.

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634157
03/18/19 07:18 PM
03/18/19 07:18 PM
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Memphis
HemiRick Offline
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How much fluid have you put in it? Still sounds to me like not enough.....


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: HemiRick] #2634165
03/18/19 07:37 PM
03/18/19 07:37 PM
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Philadelphia
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Around 7 quarts I think? but if the pump isn’t circulating the fluid it would still read full right? Because the torque converter, cooler, etc would all stil be empty?

I only know how to put a funnel into the dipstick tube I don’t know how to prime anything or make the pump create pressure if it isn’t...

Last edited by radar; 03/18/19 07:38 PM.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634198
03/18/19 08:43 PM
03/18/19 08:43 PM
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Unlss the ATF level was below the pick-up the converter will fill by itself, but (of course) that will lower the level.


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Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634202
03/18/19 08:52 PM
03/18/19 08:52 PM
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Philadelphia
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Ok so I’m going back through my Tom Hand book and looking at TF2 specs and it says the TF2 fills the converter in park.

Maybe I just need to go through the gears slowly a bunch and add more fluid?

What about the cooler line not getting pressure? Am I fubar’d?

Thanks fellas I really appreciate the experienced advice- Like I said I never built a 727 before!

I did make sure the converter was fully seated before I mated the trans to the flexplate & motor.

Last edited by radar; 03/18/19 08:55 PM.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634204
03/18/19 08:57 PM
03/18/19 08:57 PM
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Last edited by A39Coronet; 06/02/19 09:20 PM.

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Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: A39Coronet] #2634217
03/18/19 09:43 PM
03/18/19 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by A39Coronet
Forward drum piston in backwards I my guess...all fluid bypasses piston seal and clutches won't apply, no fluid anywhere else. Ask me how I know, cost me the sale of my car this winter unfortunately after a fresh rebuild.


Oof sorry to hear that! Do you mean the one under the lever forward of the accumulator? I didn’t take a ton of pix while rebuilding my 727 but here’s one where you can see the piston installed- does it look ok?

C23D455F-6EE4-45F1-AB81-F944C98EF9F7.jpeg
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634218
03/18/19 09:45 PM
03/18/19 09:45 PM
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At this point any problem that could be fixed without trans removal/dissassembly would be a godsend but it just is what it is!

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634233
03/18/19 10:18 PM
03/18/19 10:18 PM
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If it's not moving oil through the cooler, either there's not enough oil in it or something is not together right in the front of the trans. I don't know what kind of dipstick you have, but have you checked the length of the thing? If it's long for the tube, it won't read right. If you only have 7 quarts in it, I would put another quart or two in it and see what happens, regardless what the stick says,


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: CMcAllister] #2634239
03/18/19 10:38 PM
03/18/19 10:38 PM
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Twin Turbo Mower Offline
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If it is a stock oil pump the tangs/tabs on the pump gear might have broken off when installing the converter.

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: Twin Turbo Mower] #2634252
03/18/19 11:37 PM
03/18/19 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Twin Turbo Mower
If it is a stock oil pump the tangs/tabs on the pump gear might have broken off when installing the converter.


And was the converter seated into the pump?


Tony

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Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634259
03/19/19 12:10 AM
03/19/19 12:10 AM
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why is the apply piston so high on the kickdown lever? can't see it being up that high unless the spring was left out....

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: 70AARcuda] #2634260
03/19/19 12:12 AM
03/19/19 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 70AARcuda
Originally Posted by Twin Turbo Mower
If it is a stock oil pump the tangs/tabs on the pump gear might have broken off when installing the converter.


And was the converter seated into the pump?


Yes I think so. I remember the night I married the trans to the motor it took forever to drop all the way in and I didn’t force anything when it bolted to the block and flexplate

Thinking back it’s likely I took that pic before seeing my mistake and changing that kickdown situation so it didn’t stick up all crazy. I remember having to do that part twice

Last edited by radar; 03/19/19 01:17 AM.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634274
03/19/19 02:58 AM
03/19/19 02:58 AM
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The book is wrong and somehow I made a typo. My earlier post should say “ ,not park”.

You have to be in neutral to get any substantial flow out of the cooler line.

You will be there forever trying to fill the converter in park.

Run the engine with the trans in neutral while filling the trans. Sounds like you are low at this point.

Last edited by Transman; 03/19/19 03:09 AM.
Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: A727Tflite] #2634344
03/19/19 10:17 AM
03/19/19 10:17 AM
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When the deep pan was installed did u put a filter extension on it because if u didn't like said already u will need more fluid

Re: Think I fried a fresh 727 on break in [Re: radar] #2634374
03/19/19 11:44 AM
03/19/19 11:44 AM
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Romeo MI
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Are the 4 converter bolts in that couple it to the trans
wave

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