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Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: Cab_Burge] #2632391
03/13/19 07:10 PM
03/13/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Ok thanks Cab


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2632393
03/13/19 07:21 PM
03/13/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Originally Posted by ProSport
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
That prop valve should be open to insure you get the air out
wave


Mike, how do I ensure that it's open, just by pressing the pedal down?

I normally use a vacuum bleeder kit but I can have someone do the old pedal push/pump if that's what is needed.


As Cab said.. make sure its opened half way while bleeding.. that is
a adjustable restriction
wave

Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2632408
03/13/19 08:18 PM
03/13/19 08:18 PM
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Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Here's the numbers on the side of the master Cylinder if you can read them.

Screenshot_20190313-201706_Gallery.jpg

1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: Cab_Burge] #2632412
03/13/19 08:23 PM
03/13/19 08:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
master
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Put the lug nuts on to hold the rotors square on the hubs/ axles. Be sure that the rotors sit flush/ flat on the hub/ axle mounting surface. I have seen instances where the hub register has a radius larger than the rotor hat, and it is possible that the outer radius of the hub interferes with the hat. Anyway, after checking these areas, and securing the rotors, spin them by hand to be sure they run true. If they run true, ask someone to apply the brakes. Watch the caliper rotor for movement. ANY flex/ movement isn’t acceptable.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: TRENDZ] #2632425
03/13/19 08:58 PM
03/13/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Trendz, I've already done all of that except watching for flex, I'll look into that.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2632426
03/13/19 09:04 PM
03/13/19 09:04 PM
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Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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I can't find any info on those numbers on the side of my master cylinder.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2632492
03/14/19 12:13 AM
03/14/19 12:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Those numbers wont mean anything to you
wave

Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2632496
03/14/19 12:33 AM
03/14/19 12:33 AM
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Martinsville, IN
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cdwmotorsports Offline
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Martinsville, IN
Originally Posted by ProSport
Thanks guys, great info.

What do you think about that prop valve under my master cylinder, does it look correct for 4 wheel disc?
Is there any tricks to bleeding Wilwood calipers since they are 4 piston? I do the top 2 bleeds, then try to flip it up or over to do the bottom bleeds while they're facing up. I may not be doing it correctly.


From reading my Wilwood instructions I was under the impression that only the top bleeder needed to be messed with. I may be wrong but that’s how I read it.


eBay-cdwmotorsports
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2632518
03/14/19 05:40 AM
03/14/19 05:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
Those numbers wont mean anything to you
wave


Are there any numbers on these master cylinders that will give some info? I haven't looked underneath.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: cdwmotorsports] #2632519
03/14/19 05:42 AM
03/14/19 05:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Originally Posted by cdwmotorsports
Originally Posted by ProSport
Thanks guys, great info.

What do you think about that prop valve under my master cylinder, does it look correct for 4 wheel disc?
Is there any tricks to bleeding Wilwood calipers since they are 4 piston? I do the top 2 bleeds, then try to flip it up or over to do the bottom bleeds while they're facing up. I may not be doing it correctly.


From reading my Wilwood instructions I was under the impression that only the top bleeder needed to be messed with. I may be wrong but that’s how I read it.


That is correct! I just looked it up, the bottom bleeds are just for alternative mounting options.
Thanks, that is great news.

Last edited by ProSport; 03/14/19 05:48 AM.

1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2632735
03/14/19 06:10 PM
03/14/19 06:10 PM
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northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
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I think it is a good idea to compress the piston into the caliper to reduce fluid and the place for a bubble to hide.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: Clanton] #2632770
03/14/19 07:32 PM
03/14/19 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Clanton
I think it is a good idea to compress the piston into the caliper to reduce fluid and the place for a bubble to hide.


Yep I always do that. My son came home with brake problems and possible trashed wheel bearing so I'll be on that for a couple days.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2633140
03/15/19 07:52 PM
03/15/19 07:52 PM
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Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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DusterDave Offline
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Hey Bob, what are you doing with an E body? I thought you were an A body guy! If it were my car, I would ditch that factory style prop/combo valve. Second, I would bench bleed the master, just to make sure it has absolutely no air. After that, bleed the brakes again, cracking open only the upper air bleeds.


Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: DusterDave] #2633184
03/15/19 11:03 PM
03/15/19 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DusterDave
Hey Bob, what are you doing with an E body? I thought you were an A body guy! If it were my car, I would ditch that factory style prop/combo valve. Second, I would bench bleed the master, just to make sure it has absolutely no air. After that, bleed the brakes again, cracking open only the upper air bleeds.


Hi Dave! I'll post some pics of this '70 Challenger when I get it done, it's a fun pro-touring street car. I failed to mention this earlier but there's a Wilwood valve for the rear brakes, it's in my photo under the MC if you look closely. I too am wondering if I should just ditch the factory prop valve, but then I'm sure I'd have to run new brake lines unless these could go into position without too much drama.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2636420
03/24/19 01:13 PM
03/24/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Update:
I bled the brakes, then fully increased the pressure to the rear brakes with the Wilwood valve, I then noticed the adjustable MC pushrod was set pretty loose, I lengthened it and tightened it, the brake pedal came up a little higher. Now the brakes are good, once the pedal travels about 1/4 of the way it engages harder and the brakes work good but I can say that it takes some leg muscle to stop the car quickly.
It's good enough to drive now but I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy a different MC with the smaller bore. I still have no idea what MC is in it now.

My next step will be the charging system, car has an Optima red top in the trunk, the starter is a Powermaster #9300 gear reduction starter, it turns over way too slow and doesn't start very easily. Once it starts and I drive it, I'll shut it off and restart it and it doesn't want to start, acts like battery is dead but battery has 12.3 volts. Maybe the car is wired with a wire that's too small or something. The alternator is a Tuff Stuff 100 amp, I might upgrade that to the Tuff Stuff 130 amp. When running my dash volt gauge only reads 13 volts, and only 12.5 when the fans kick on, although those numbers are a half volt higher when measured with a handheld voltmeter at the battery in the trunk.

My Duster had the battery up front in the engine compartment and had a Dakota/Ram mini starter, it spun the motor over very fast and fired easily.
It also had a denso alternator that was always at 14 volts, never any battery problems.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2636566
03/24/19 06:27 PM
03/24/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Sounds like you have some poor connections, maybe it is time to remove, clean and make sure all the connection are good, especially on the grounds up
I use two # 2 cable grounds in the trunk off of the battery and multiple #4 grounds from the frame to the motor also up scope
you need to keep in mind that all current, voltage and amperage, comes out of the negative side of ALL batteries and is returned through the positive side shruggy
The only time current flows form positive to negative is in the battery scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: Cab_Burge] #2636613
03/24/19 08:02 PM
03/24/19 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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Cab I'll go through and check everything, this is a new build, everything is clean. Something could need grounded better though.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2638334
03/29/19 05:23 AM
03/29/19 05:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline OP
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All is good now 👍

I re-did the grounds and added a couple grounds, everything is working better. Also realized I was giving the Big Hemi too much fuel so it was choking on it and making it seem like the battery couldn't turn the motor over. I gave it a half pump and then held the butterfly on the carb 1/3 open and it fires right up. Went for a nice little cruise last night. 😁


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: ProSport] #2638347
03/29/19 07:23 AM
03/29/19 07:23 AM
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Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Originally Posted by ProSport
Update:
I bled the brakes, then fully increased the pressure to the rear brakes with the Wilwood valve, I then noticed the adjustable MC pushrod was set pretty loose, I lengthened it and tightened it, the brake pedal came up a little higher. Now the brakes are good, once the pedal travels about 1/4 of the way it engages harder and the brakes work good but I can say that it takes some leg muscle to stop the car quickly.
It's good enough to drive now but I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy a different MC with the smaller bore. I still have no idea what MC is in it now.

My next step will be the charging system, car has an Optima red top in the trunk, the starter is a Powermaster #9300 gear reduction starter, it turns over way too slow and doesn't start very easily. Once it starts and I drive it, I'll shut it off and restart it and it doesn't want to start, acts like battery is dead but battery has 12.3 volts. Maybe the car is wired with a wire that's too small or something. The alternator is a Tuff Stuff 100 amp, I might upgrade that to the Tuff Stuff 130 amp. When running my dash volt gauge only reads 13 volts, and only 12.5 when the fans kick on, although those numbers are a half volt higher when measured with a handheld voltmeter at the battery in the trunk.

My Duster had the battery up front in the engine compartment and had a Dakota/Ram mini starter, it spun the motor over very fast and fired easily.
It also had a denso alternator that was always at 14 volts, never any battery problems.


You defiantly need some power upgrade somewhere. That red top should read 12.7-13.0 at rest with no load. When it is reading 12.3 volts it is significantly down on power, probably only has about %60 or less of its cranking power. It needs to be charging in the 14-14.5 range.

Before you do anything with the charging system put the battery on a good AGM charger and get it good and charged, then look over the charging system and see how it is doing.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: My Wilwood brakes aren't happy, need advice [Re: Bad340fish] #2638350
03/29/19 07:27 AM
03/29/19 07:27 AM
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MN
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish
Originally Posted by ProSport
Update:
I bled the brakes, then fully increased the pressure to the rear brakes with the Wilwood valve, I then noticed the adjustable MC pushrod was set pretty loose, I lengthened it and tightened it, the brake pedal came up a little higher. Now the brakes are good, once the pedal travels about 1/4 of the way it engages harder and the brakes work good but I can say that it takes some leg muscle to stop the car quickly.
It's good enough to drive now but I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy a different MC with the smaller bore. I still have no idea what MC is in it now.

My next step will be the charging system, car has an Optima red top in the trunk, the starter is a Powermaster #9300 gear reduction starter, it turns over way too slow and doesn't start very easily. Once it starts and I drive it, I'll shut it off and restart it and it doesn't want to start, acts like battery is dead but battery has 12.3 volts. Maybe the car is wired with a wire that's too small or something. The alternator is a Tuff Stuff 100 amp, I might upgrade that to the Tuff Stuff 130 amp. When running my dash volt gauge only reads 13 volts, and only 12.5 when the fans kick on, although those numbers are a half volt higher when measured with a handheld voltmeter at the battery in the trunk.

My Duster had the battery up front in the engine compartment and had a Dakota/Ram mini starter, it spun the motor over very fast and fired easily.
It also had a denso alternator that was always at 14 volts, never any battery problems.


You defiantly need some power upgrade somewhere. That red top should read 12.7-13.0 at rest with no load. When it is reading 12.3 volts it is significantly down on power, probably only has about %60 or less of its cranking power. It needs to be charging in the 14-14.5 range.

Before you do anything with the charging system put the battery on a good AGM charger and get it good and charged, then look over the charging system and see how it is doing.


Good info Clark.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
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