Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632355
03/13/19 05:00 PM
03/13/19 05:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia
radar
OP
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OP
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Guess I better make sure those pushrods are not bent too...
Edit: yup the one that did all the smashing #7 exhaust has a wobble you can hear but not really see when rolling it on glass. Time for some pushrods too.
After having a moment to reflect I guess the shaft got loose enough to let the pushrod out of the pocket in the rocker, then did a little smashing while misaligned in the lifter, then the shaft finished loosening up until it wasn’t even opening the valve any more.
Last edited by radar; 03/13/19 05:52 PM.
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632361
03/13/19 05:14 PM
03/13/19 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 150 It's Complicated
HDNMOPERS
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It's Complicated
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I got a brand new set of 16. Hy-Lift Johnson slow bleed HYD Lifters. If your interested in them.
Last edited by HDNMOPERS; 03/13/19 05:19 PM.
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: sasquatch]
#2632461
03/13/19 10:24 PM
03/13/19 10:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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As you surmised I'd say the rocker bolts coming loose caused all the carnage. As you are doing replace the lifters (make sure they ain't too tight in the lifter bore(s)/check/replace the pushrods & #1 find out/address how the rocker bolts were/came loose. As you go together you might check/note preload.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632514
03/14/19 02:34 AM
03/14/19 02:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,090 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,090
Bend,OR USA
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I would make sure the rocker arm shaft bolts are at least grade 5 or better and make sure to NOT over torque them The FSM calls for 23 to 25 Ft. Lbs. and that is what I use.(although I convert those numbers to inch Lbs. and use my 3/8 drive 100 to 750 inch lb. torque wrench on any torque below 30 Ft. Lbs. 23x12=276 inch Lbs., 12x25=300 inch lbs., correct ) I do check them at least three times while assembling the motor and again after warming up the motor to break the cam and lifters in and recheck the valve lash and inspect for F.O.D. in the heads in case of something going horribly wrong like you had Good luck on your deal
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632572
03/14/19 10:15 AM
03/14/19 10:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia
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Ok so I went out got a really good cleaning and look at the threads on my bolt and head. Somehow the rocker stand threads still look sharp and the bolt threads down nicely. Hard to believe the last two bolts would just work loose like that with almost constant pressure on them as the rockers work the valves. Break in rpm is definitely loud though so I can see how I wouldn’t have noticed it until it realls clattered? Still I’m surprised. While I was trying to drift off to sleep last night I kept thinking how could the pushrod have slipped far enough out of the dimple in the rocker and simultaneously wedged either to coil bind or too far toward the fulcrum of the rocker to have good leverage? The pushrods don’t contact their holes through the head but don’t have a ton of room to misalign- the holes aim at the lifters pretty well. Or did the pushrod just slip over into the lifter’s snapring/retention wire area then the cocked piston in the lifter bore broke the little sheetmetal piece underneath before it spat out the piston? And how did the intake lifter piston get cocked in its lifter bore? And if enough force was transmitted from the rocker, which was anchored by bolts that were unscrewing fast enough to cause problems in less than 5 minutes of 2500-2700 rpm, how did it not pull the remaining threads holding the shaft bolts right out of the aluminum rocker stand?! What a freaky thing. I actually have a video of it from my wife’s phone I posted on yootoob- you can hear a hint of a problem starting in the middle of the video but it was tough to hear in the heat of the moment at rpm before it was too late. Skip to 2:45 through to hear the carnage happen. I think after that it was still running on 7 cyls pretty well with the one cylinder only slightly opening the intake and the exhaust valve staying closed! The rpm didn’t change a ton and there were no additional horrible noises. On the other hand a healthy 448” V7 motor should make enough power to drag a dead hole along for the ride. https://youtu.be/pyZlQqcrNkI
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632700
03/14/19 04:16 PM
03/14/19 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,836 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 17,836
S.E. Michigan
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If it were mine, I would be checking the rocker shafts as well to make sure they are not bent.
I agree you dodged a bullet, it could have been much, much worse.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2632704
03/14/19 04:27 PM
03/14/19 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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The shaft bolts get loose, then you have some clearance between the pushrods and the rockers/lifters, pushrods are jumping around in the lifters & rockers, hammering all the pieces involved....... and you’re gonna end up with a few broken pieces.
Stuff happens........ you caught it before it got real ugly.
Last edited by fast68plymouth; 03/14/19 04:28 PM.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: Porter67]
#2632802
03/14/19 08:54 PM
03/14/19 08:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810 Sobieski Wi
bee1971
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
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Does the Stealth head use heli coils for the rocker arm shaft threaded bosses ?
Never installed a Stealth head
Was nice to see that the Edelbrock E Street used heli coils and supplied studs for 2 and 4 bosses
However
Was not nice to see the some what broken off heli coil tangs left in the bottom of the holes in three spots when I was trying to torque everything down
Avoided a messy situation there
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee 2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded Siberian Huskies
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: Porter67]
#2632856
03/14/19 11:54 PM
03/14/19 11:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia
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OP
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To me it sounds like at approx 36 seconds in on your vid it dont sound well. Sounds like its already laboring imo.
Hope its a easy fix. I had my thumb on the throttle and couldn’t understand why my buddy wouldn’t spin the curb idle screw until I could let it go. Turns out he was trying to be smart and run back and forth to look at the tach but that dip in rpm was me checking to see if I could let the throttle go yet or not and yelling at him to zing up that curb idle asap. My floats were way high and it was running super duper rich. I’m still not sure if I did it again if I would have heard it starting to let go and know to open the valvecovers. I’ve had adjustable lifters on solids open up before but always heard a tap and shut her down. Guess it was my torqueing negligence mixed with a freak thing. The stealths have room to run 1/4” longer bolts without flirting with the bottoms of the blind holes. I’m gonna spray out the holes with brakleen and shop air a few times then blue loctite them in next time. I got new pushrods, just waiting on lifters and gonna order some new grade 5 or 8 bolts off mcmaster.
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: radar]
#2632862
03/15/19 12:56 AM
03/15/19 12:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
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Pattison Texas
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I do NOT recommend loctite on the bolts
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: CSK]
#2632866
03/15/19 01:19 AM
03/15/19 01:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Lincoln Nebraska
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X2 no loctite & my Super Stealths have inserts so I would highly assume the Stealths do also. Not sure about grade 8 but I will defer to others on this. EDIT yes spray em out with brake kleen & eyeball em to see if the threads look good then run a bolt in there & see if it threads in/out good then we will see about advise on a lube. I usually dip threads in 30 oil then blow em off with shop air. On a side note I would pick a cyl that is on TDC compression & see what the preload is (not that I think it caused this) but it is important.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/15/19 01:27 AM. Reason: more thought/bored
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Ate a couple lifters- never seen that before
[Re: 540DUSTER]
#2633002
03/15/19 12:41 PM
03/15/19 12:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia
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did you fill the lifters with oil before you started engine? Do you have adjustable rockers? I soaked the lifters overnight but I didn’t take them apart and fill them or anything crazy. I also let the drill run for a minute when I primed the oil pump- dunno if it was clocked right to feed the lifter galleries but it didn’t noticably clatter on fireup. I’m running a comp .507” hft cam with extreme energy lifters and I bought comp 5/16” pushrods that are nice fartory low deck replacement deals- 8.555” iirc. The rockers and shaft are stock late 70s truck pieces out of the 400 donor motor I stroked.
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