1st Post What would you build?
#2630723
03/09/19 12:22 PM
03/09/19 12:22 PM
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warhawk
Unregistered
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warhawk
Unregistered
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This is my first post and I just purchased a 68 Charger shell. This is my first Mopar although I am very familiar with mechanical and body work.
If you were in this situation, what would be your ultimate engine build with these goals in mind:
Streetable- as in OK to cruise around town, not overheat, etc. ( no 1,000 mile road trips)
Run mid 10's at a weight of 3700 lbs.
HAS to sound like a badass- Vain I know but if it sounds like a sewing machine what's the point?!
Thanks to anyone who will reply
WH
Last edited by warhawk; 03/09/19 12:23 PM.
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630739
03/09/19 01:12 PM
03/09/19 01:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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I'm no engine expert as my racing career ended in 1991, but to do what your asking assuming your chassis will be up to the 650hp required @3700lbs to run 10.50's. Several ways to do it...1. 512 BB wedge with TF 270 heads, 2. 572 with -1 heads both at around 10>10.5:1 would be 2 ways to go and we haven't mentioned a Hemi.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: rb446]
#2630740
03/09/19 01:22 PM
03/09/19 01:22 PM
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warhawk
Unregistered
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warhawk
Unregistered
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Thank you. From my reading the 572 would require an aftermarket block. I am not opposed to that at all, but I have also read that those blocks are very hard to come by.
From further reading, the 400 stroker seams like a better ( read Stronger) block than the 440. Is this true or a myth?
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630751
03/09/19 01:40 PM
03/09/19 01:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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A good sonic tested 400 block is a lot better way to start than any stock 440 block for building what you want. I have built several, a lot actually,400 based stroker motors that exceeded 750+HP on pump gas with a single 1050 Dominator with a set of M.W. size heads like the Indy SR opened up to M.W. size intakes. On your deal you'll need the cam, converter, heads, intake manifold and chassis to make your car get traction and go that fast to all work well together. My old pump gas Duster that weighed 3450 Lbs. with me in it went a best of 9.993 at 134.9 MPH corked up with the 3.0 inch full length exhaust system on with the air cleaner on. It was a hoot to drive and didn't sound anything like a sewing machine. To max any combination out it needs to be all good from the front bumper bolts to the rear bumper bolts, your starting with a good shell so the slate is clean, build carefully and then go have some fun. Two axiom I like to follow, light is right, motor and drive train parts, over all weight, and #2 is big is best on motor parts, big C.I., big heads, big valve train parts and intake and carb. I have two 400 block race motors now, one with a 4.250 stroke crankshaft with a set of Eddy Victor Max wedge heads and the other one is a 4.300 stroke crank with a set of CNC ported Indy 440-1 with a set of Jesel pair shaft rocker arm set up. The Indy head motor hasn't been ran yet but I expect it to make at least 50 HP more and run .2 ET quicker in my S/P car than the other shorter stroke motor with the Eddy heads. IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630788
03/09/19 02:48 PM
03/09/19 02:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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The BEST advice I can give is don't waste one single second on an OE block. Find an aftermarket block. There is no reason to start with a block that is 50 years or more old. What a waste.
Everything else you want to do is relatively simple. The correct heads. The correct compression ratio (IMO anything lower than 10.5:1 is a waste and you can go more if you're careful about cam selection and tune up...if you want an off the shelf cam ignore my compression ratio advice). The correct gear ratio (most guys don't run enough gear). The correct torque converter (most guys don't run near enough stall and the car is miserable because of it, and then they go back and try and band aid it with a smaller cam etc all for not).
Get the basics correct and the rest is like falling off a log.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: madscientist]
#2630790
03/09/19 02:50 PM
03/09/19 02:50 PM
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warhawk
Unregistered
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warhawk
Unregistered
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I really appreciate all of the posts here. So many ways to do this!!
I would love to start with an aftermarket block. Does anyone know of have one for sale? Wedge or Hemi?
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630812
03/09/19 04:03 PM
03/09/19 04:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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If I could do it over, A Gen III Hemi would be my choice, Hellcrate
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: CSK]
#2630821
03/09/19 04:33 PM
03/09/19 04:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
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If I could do it over, A Gen III Hemi would be my choice, Hellcrate Not a bad option. To further muddy the waters.........I can get E-85 everywhere. My toy is 12.85:1 because I can. Geography will color your decision too. End use is the final arbitrator. I know first hand that trying to make a car that is a comfortable cruiser , but performs like an animal is way harder that I thought. Compromises have to be made. EFI and boost make it possible to run down the strasse with the a.c. on and the tunes blaring , on your way to the track to rattle off a 10.50 I went with cam - carb - compression..........but I'm old. LOL I think I would maybe have done a few things differently if I started the build today.
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630825
03/09/19 04:47 PM
03/09/19 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Got some questions... Auto or stick? What altitude/density altitude is typical for your local tracks? 3700 #s with driver, or 3700 #s + driver weight? Straight pump gas? If so, what octane & ethanol %? Any issue with your needing to check & set lash periodically? Budget? Any issue with a mild(er) build and a small N2O kit to get your ET goal? Oh, better to have a car that's faster than it sounds than the alternative.
Last edited by BradH; 03/09/19 04:50 PM.
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: BradH]
#2630841
03/09/19 06:03 PM
03/09/19 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,521 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,521
Minnesota
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Those cars are so good looking from the factory, I would build it stock appearing, like a restoration, but do a 572 Hemi, 10.5:1, eddy heads, or Stage V heads, solid roller @ 280ish duration at .050, .650-.700 lift. 2 AFB's on a Vanke intake, or step up to a Stage V dual quad intake. Put some nice shiny 15" wheels on it, like magnum 500's or Keystone classics. Get a set of slicks for the strip, or use some DOT stickys all the time. Dana 60 with aftermarket axles and detroit locker. Set up your rear leafs like the original Hemi cars, and add some clamps and extra half leafs like we do in F.A.S.T. It should go about 10 flat, be nice and streetable, and sound wicked.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: dvw]
#2630924
03/09/19 10:06 PM
03/09/19 10:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804
Wichita
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BGE blocked 3rd gen with turbo. The only issue would be it won't sound badass.
The other issue is it will go much faster than 10's!
Last edited by GY3; 03/09/19 10:07 PM.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: dvw]
#2630928
03/09/19 10:17 PM
03/09/19 10:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Boost is where it's at! 500 inch wedge or hemi can put you at 10.0 built right. Why only 10.50,is there a tight budget! I have been 9.3 @ 147 with 6 lbs of boost 3700 with me in through 4 inch tailpipes. You many awesome choices! I am not a fan of gen 3 in old mopars,,,,but that's just me.I have seen some cool ones done!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: ]
#2630950
03/09/19 11:43 PM
03/09/19 11:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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I forgot to mention that on any stock B or RB block you should change the main caps to aluminum with ARP main studs when you want to build that motor above 650 HP on pump gas! No main girdles needed either IMO. IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: AndyF]
#2630973
03/10/19 02:40 AM
03/10/19 02:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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600 to 650 hp is fairly easy with a stock block and Trick Flow heads. Since it is a B body you might as well use a 440 block and build a 505. I'd go with TF 240 heads but you could step up to the larger port 270 heads if you want. If it was me I'd use a hyd roller cam and a throttle body type of fuel injection. The Sniper will support up to 700 hp and it is cheap but a Terminator kit gives you a lot more room for growth.
Transmission is a little tougher call. A good 5 speed manual setup makes it easier to have the right ratio for street driving as well as freeway cruising and going down the track but you have to put up with clutch maintenance. A 727 trans only has 3 gears so it is somewhat limited. You can adapt various OD autos or you can go with a bolt on overdrive. Neither of those solutions are very clean.
You'll have to be a lot more specific in terms of budget dollars and what your real goals are before you'll be able to make a decision. A 4150 Sniper , 700 hp, Really,
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2630976
03/10/19 03:55 AM
03/10/19 03:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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If you stay with a stock block the life of the block can be increased by using a centwr wieghted crank. That puts the loads where they belong , not on adjacent main bearings. To put one in a b block will take some machine work. Since you want to push it fairly hard, i would go lowdeck 4.25 stroke by 4.375 bore for 512 cubes. Isky grinds some very good cams.check out thier . 660 lift roller, maybe put a 1.6 rocker on the intakes. I would go with a solid roller, about .700 net lift roughly. A single dominator and 2 1/8 headers. Compression will have to be as high as pumpgas is allowed.
Last edited by gregsdart; 03/10/19 04:05 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 1st Post What would you build?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2630982
03/10/19 06:27 AM
03/10/19 06:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,400 Trumbauersville PA
ric3xrt
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,400
Trumbauersville PA
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High strung 451ci, 400, mild 505CI 440 , 526ci G2 Hemi shouldn't break a sweat. for the pure WOW factor you could always turbo a Slant 6 and be real different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPm0POxQuNkI'm a G3 Hemi guy myself.....426Ci BGE block build will get there at 3700LBS
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda make their own truth. Some of us are so open minded they only see their View
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