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4.7/ 5.9 engine swap #2627621
03/01/19 06:15 PM
03/01/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
JT612GTX Offline OP
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Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
Hey guys, Im sure theres a post already regarding this,
want to replace a junk 4.7 out for a 5.9 in a durango,
Im hearing trans will interchange but some wiring. pcm changes required? thanks in advance for any input. John


86 Daytona - 612/ glide - 2400lbs - 8.60 alot more left
71 S/G Challenger - 469/glide - 2800lbs - 9.20s and tuning
70 Challenger - mild 440/727 - 3475lbs - 10.96 best
70 GTX - future quick 16? more $$$$$$
Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2627626
03/01/19 06:29 PM
03/01/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,883
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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stumpy  Offline
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Grand Prairie,Texas
I'm interested in the answer to this myself. What year Durango?

Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: stumpy] #2627634
03/01/19 06:40 PM
03/01/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
JT612GTX Offline OP
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JT612GTX  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
2001, 4 wheel drive, I have a 2001 5.9 and a 1998 5.2.both good engines, I know 4.7 has a bad reputation unless you get one thats been taking care of, want more power anyway, its my plow truck.


86 Daytona - 612/ glide - 2400lbs - 8.60 alot more left
71 S/G Challenger - 469/glide - 2800lbs - 9.20s and tuning
70 Challenger - mild 440/727 - 3475lbs - 10.96 best
70 GTX - future quick 16? more $$$$$$
Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2627667
03/01/19 09:12 PM
03/01/19 09:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Well, you will need the harness and PCM from a 2001-2003 5.9 Durango. The Durango is a PCI bus so in order for it all to work with the trans, cluster, SRS and ABS systems you will need to use a PCM with the same bus system.

As for the trans and flex plate (crankshaft position sensor) I don't know. The 4.7 has an internal tone wheel on the crankshaft itself and the magnum is external on the flexplate/flywheel. Plus the 4.7 uses 8 ignition coils and the 5.9 uses a distributor. This is the main reason why you will need the correct PCM and harness just to run the engine.

Kind of unrelated to what you are doing but I believe when they switched to the CAN bus system the tooth count on the tone wheel of the 4.7 changed so they are not interchangeable at that point. I'm sure some one else like Hotroddave (sp?) knows better about this than I do. Just in case you were thinking about swapping in a later 4.7.

Last edited by Guitar Jones; 03/01/19 09:16 PM.

"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2627668
03/01/19 09:18 PM
03/01/19 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 637
SoMd, USA
1
135sohc Offline
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SoMd, USA
The RFE and 5.9 might bolt together but making them work together is another thing. Two years ago I briefly talked with a former chrysler engineer.

Quote:
The RFE had two starter bells cast into the bell housing to support the starter being on the other side with the 5.2/5.9.
This was done because at the time there were no 4.7 engines available so the 5.2 was used and the 5.7 was still in the development stage.
With this, a hole was drilled in the bell housing at the 10:30 position, as you look from the rear of the trans.
A unique flex plate was used with a tone ring to trigger the CPS and support mounting of the RFE TC.
The controls were the early EATX with an over-lay harness to tie into the TPS, J-1850 bus, ignition pwr, batt pwr and engine CPS.
The tail end of the over-lay harness then plugged into the trans solenoid pack, turbine sensor, output sensor and LP sensor.
The software was modified to properly calculate the proper amount of CPS pulses into engine RPM and unique shift and TC schedules were adapted for good operation behind the 5.2.



Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: 135sohc] #2627674
03/01/19 09:47 PM
03/01/19 09:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By 135sohc
The RFE and 5.9 might bolt together but making them work together is another thing. Two years ago I briefly talked with a former chrysler engineer.

Quote:
The RFE had two starter bells cast into the bell housing to support the starter being on the other side with the 5.2/5.9.
This was done because at the time there were no 4.7 engines available so the 5.2 was used and the 5.7 was still in the development stage.
With this, a hole was drilled in the bell housing at the 10:30 position, as you look from the rear of the trans.
A unique flex plate was used with a tone ring to trigger the CPS and support mounting of the RFE TC.
The controls were the early EATX with an over-lay harness to tie into the TPS, J-1850 bus, ignition pwr, batt pwr and engine CPS.
The tail end of the over-lay harness then plugged into the trans solenoid pack, turbine sensor, output sensor and LP sensor.
The software was modified to properly calculate the proper amount of CPS pulses into engine RPM and unique shift and TC schedules were adapted for good operation behind the 5.2.


The whole 5.2/5.9/RFE thing is unique and probably not very common. Additionally new parts may no longer be available either. As I alluded to earlier you may want to think about this and do some research on what is available and what is not. I'm thinking a 12 valve Cummins swap may not be any more difficult to complete and in fact may be easier. realcrazy

Of course a 5.7 Hemi swap may be even easier as a 2003-2005 Ram is a PCI bus.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2627978
03/02/19 05:20 PM
03/02/19 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
you need a complete donor rig. Engine, trans, transfer case, complete under hood harness, fuel lines, exhaust, motor mounts, if your donor and recipient don't use the same security or lack of it you will need to swap the interior computer. Your donor needs to be 01-30 durango 5.9 or if it's from a dakota you will have to get the bumper grill area wiring harness also because some reason I have yet to discover they changed where they plugged into each other. Also if you use a dakota for the swap you will need to make sure either they both have or both don't have security because the BCM thingy behind the glove box is not interchangable because it would not work all your bodily functions in the back of the rig like rear windows and trunk activated light...

If it was my rig I would swap in some 3.92s and live with it, somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 replace the timing chains, head gaskets and re-surface the heads.

I have an 01 durango I am considering putting my plow on because nobody will buy it with the 4.7. My 89 dakota with the plow has been great but it is now a major tird and barely runs so it may be time for me to move on.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2628178
03/03/19 04:55 AM
03/03/19 04:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
JT612GTX Offline OP
member
JT612GTX  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Otsego, mi. by Martin 131 stri...
Sounds like quite a bit of labor and cost of a doner,not sure if its worth it now knowing what all has to be done.
I really appreciate your guys expertise on this swap, a good used 4.7 when u find one is pricey as well,then taking a chance on that, would have to be a labor of love to complete successfully, now considering just rebuilding the 4.7 as long as the block, heads and crank are good, rebuild kits about $800, still turns over just lost oil pressure, time to tear it down,
Thanks again!! John


86 Daytona - 612/ glide - 2400lbs - 8.60 alot more left
71 S/G Challenger - 469/glide - 2800lbs - 9.20s and tuning
70 Challenger - mild 440/727 - 3475lbs - 10.96 best
70 GTX - future quick 16? more $$$$$$
Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: JT612GTX] #2628191
03/03/19 09:37 AM
03/03/19 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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360view  Offline
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USA
Just curious...
Since 4.7V8s from salvage yards for replacement are so rare,
could 3.7v6s be more easily installed just to keep an otherwise clean vehicle running?

Didn’t someone market a supercharger kit for 3.7 Jeeps at one time?

Re: 4.7/ 5.9 engine swap [Re: 360view] #2629230
03/05/19 04:07 PM
03/05/19 04:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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HotRodDave  Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
A 3.7 would be an easy swap, much easier than a 5.9 but they have very little power, he said he wants more, and they have the same timing chain set up that causes issues on the 4.7.

On the other hand I would just do the timing chain kit with all the guides, chains, sprockets, gears, water pimp, oil pimp and head gaskets along with milling the heads (we do this as a menu item in my shop for $1500 total). Most of the 4.7 rigs I have bought with "bad engines" this cures them for another 100K, I have only done about two because of actual bottom end failure. I see a lot more of these rigs with a "bad engine" get fixed with re-installing rocker arms than I do actual bad engines.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!









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