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Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there #2624416
02/21/19 09:56 PM
02/21/19 09:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 33
Naperville, IL
T
TamrazsParts Offline OP
member
TamrazsParts  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 33
Naperville, IL
Hey there! Need some advice.

30 year Mopar veteran. Grew up in Chicago and used to have all of my engine work done through a local shop that has long been out of business.

I have a great shop (on 63rd and New England) that doesn't really do performance work per se, so mostly I have them prep the block, and I build the rest. Budget Engine (aka Chicago Engines, Call Glenn - $350 bore and hone - the work is the best price I've seen. Done 20 of them in as many years...

Here is the problem:

Called Hughes Engines (they build my last race motor 20 years ago) Best engine I ever ran....however...recently, I called to arrange labor bid/costing for my short block (400/512/270TF head) combo project suddenly became a 15K crate engine build with a totally different outcome. Great crew, but they don't take orders the way you want them, and they seem to choose what they want for work. And I don't want to refinance my house.

Muscle Motors, Michigan - Talked to Eric Budden there. Seems nice, got a good price on the rotating assembly. Research shows they went under 2 years ago. Is that true? The website is still up.

Indy Cylinder Head - absolute nightmare reviews. Would chance buying their long blocks, but they still sell everything via PDF catalog. What is this 2003?

Ray Barton - website is black-flagged for virus...no SSL on the site. Really? I expect more for a guy who builds the fastest Hemi's I'd heard of.

PER Race Engines, Plainfield - Drive by on a Friday at 2 p.m. to stop in and talk about the build. Not very friendly, guys points me to the front office....nobody there. Called them...Monday, guy who answers says "we don't do old Mopar" - which is good, given a friend also told me that he had them do a long block 540 Chevy...and when he got the engine back...changed the oil pan...and in the process, found 3 main bolts hand tight. Explanation? Hard times...we had some night crews working late. Scratch that one!

Built-rite engines - great guys...did some work with them in 2012. 3 weeks is actually 3-4 months...and I was still over budget because they didn't realize piston/rod assembly I used then would work. I was referred there from a Chevy friend...and that chevy friend has had his engine goto pieces 4 times. It has been sleeved twice, and its world products block from like 2005. So I'm gun shy

So who is within 250 miles of Chicago and still does decent Long block assembly for older Mopars.

Conclusion: What the hell is happening to these shops? No wonder my other plan is to dump the old [censored] and buy a Challenger like everyone else. Then at least I can call Arrington and build something modern.

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

chuck@tamrazs.com


Come check out our latest products!
http://www.tamrazs.com
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624419
02/21/19 10:01 PM
02/21/19 10:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
Opel Engineering up in Streamwood.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624437
02/21/19 10:24 PM
02/21/19 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,267
Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
master
markz528  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,267
Morrow, OH
Originally Posted By TamrazsParts


Muscle Motors, Michigan - Talked to Eric Budden there. Seems nice, got a good price on the rotating assembly. Research shows they went under 2 years ago. Is that true? The website is still up.



They only sell parts now. No longer do machining or assembly.

Right at your 250 miles is Bischoff Engine Services (BES) in Indiana - Tony Bischoff knows how to make hp on any motor. He ended up fixing my "the block" that MM totally screwed up. Street/Strip 505 with OOTB TrickFlow 270 heads made 713 HP and 707 torque with a Dwayne Porter spec'd cam.

I can't say enough good things about BES. They are my type of machine shop and I am very difficult to please. Not the cheapest though.....


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624450
02/21/19 10:39 PM
02/21/19 10:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
IMO just find a GOOD MACHINE SHOP. Round is round, square is square, flat is flat. Find someone who builds engines in the area you are looking to target and talk to them. BES is one of the better shops in the country IMO. Be hard pressed to find better. They are "close" to you why bother with a "Mopar" shop when you have one of the nest in your backyard


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: Al_Alguire] #2624453
02/21/19 10:44 PM
02/21/19 10:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 142
illinois
E
evenflow Offline
member
evenflow  Offline
member
E

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 142
illinois
another vote for Opel engineering. Ted is a genius

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624458
02/21/19 10:50 PM
02/21/19 10:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,046
Bowling Green, KY
C
cudaboy Offline
master
cudaboy  Offline
master
C

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,046
Bowling Green, KY
Maybe outside of 250 miles, but what about Best Machine?

Dennis

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: cudaboy] #2624459
02/21/19 10:52 PM
02/21/19 10:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black® Offline
pro stock
Keith Black®  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Originally Posted By cudaboy
Maybe outside of 250 miles, but what about Best Machine?

Dennis


x 2.
Best Machine.


--------------------------------
Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624465
02/21/19 11:09 PM
02/21/19 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 285
Northern IL
meathead66 Offline
enthusiast
meathead66  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 285
Northern IL

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: meathead66] #2624470
02/21/19 11:16 PM
02/21/19 11:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 989
Addison,IL
OUTLAWSSAA Offline
super stock
OUTLAWSSAA  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 989
Addison,IL
Ted at Opel is good. And he's a mopar guy.

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624472
02/21/19 11:19 PM
02/21/19 11:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
Valley performance and machine
Ionia Mi
Great guys. Mopar shop


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: B3422W5] #2624477
02/21/19 11:29 PM
02/21/19 11:29 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 902
Gilbert, AZ
A
Aspen7695 Offline
super stock
Aspen7695  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 902
Gilbert, AZ
Mike Blackstone in Iron Mountain MI builds great engines. A lot of stock, super stock,and top sportsman racers run his engines. He is a perfectionist.

Raul

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: Aspen7695] #2624484
02/21/19 11:37 PM
02/21/19 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
F
fullmetaljacket Offline
master
fullmetaljacket  Offline
master
F

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
xx3 Best Machine. They will talk with you through the build and get the numbers right and transparent the first time. Clean, knowledgeable Mopar shop with a in-house dyno mill to trigger your motor before it leaves the premises.
I lug all the way from New York for them. Way over 250 miles, but I also go to Detroit a few times a year.

Last edited by fullmetaljacket; 02/22/19 10:59 PM.
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624504
02/22/19 12:04 AM
02/22/19 12:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
M
mcat4321 Offline
master
mcat4321  Offline
master
M

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
BES...PERIOD!

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624511
02/22/19 12:19 AM
02/22/19 12:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
Cedar Rapids, IA
6
69Mcode440 Offline
member
69Mcode440  Offline
member
6

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
Cedar Rapids, IA
Call Dave Bruns, Mid America racing Engines, Washington, Ia. 319-653-6282.
He does lots of Mopar, machine work or full build. He has a dyno also.


Mike
69 440 Cuda
71 Dart drag car
70 Duster drag car Best et 9.32, 145.9 mph
2019 Ram 2500 4x4
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624568
02/22/19 02:39 AM
02/22/19 02:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
master
Brian Hafliger  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Originally Posted By TamrazsParts
Hey there! Need some advice.

30 year Mopar veteran. Grew up in Chicago and used to have all of my engine work done through a local shop that has long been out of business.

I have a great shop (on 63rd and New England) that doesn't really do performance work per se, so mostly I have them prep the block, and I build the rest. Budget Engine (aka Chicago Engines, Call Glenn - $350 bore and hone - the work is the best price I've seen. Done 20 of them in as many years...

Here is the problem:

Called Hughes Engines (they build my last race motor 20 years ago) Best engine I ever ran....however...recently, I called to arrange labor bid/costing for my short block (400/512/270TF head) combo project suddenly became a 15K crate engine build with a totally different outcome. Great crew, but they don't take orders the way you want them, and they seem to choose what they want for work. And I don't want to refinance my house.

Muscle Motors, Michigan - Talked to Eric Budden there. Seems nice, got a good price on the rotating assembly. Research shows they went under 2 years ago. Is that true? The website is still up.

Indy Cylinder Head - absolute nightmare reviews. Would chance buying their long blocks, but they still sell everything via PDF catalog. What is this 2003?

Ray Barton - website is black-flagged for virus...no SSL on the site. Really? I expect more for a guy who builds the fastest Hemi's I'd heard of.

PER Race Engines, Plainfield - Drive by on a Friday at 2 p.m. to stop in and talk about the build. Not very friendly, guys points me to the front office....nobody there. Called them...Monday, guy who answers says "we don't do old Mopar" - which is good, given a friend also told me that he had them do a long block 540 Chevy...and when he got the engine back...changed the oil pan...and in the process, found 3 main bolts hand tight. Explanation? Hard times...we had some night crews working late. Scratch that one!

Built-rite engines - great guys...did some work with them in 2012. 3 weeks is actually 3-4 months...and I was still over budget because they didn't realize piston/rod assembly I used then would work. I was referred there from a Chevy friend...and that chevy friend has had his engine goto pieces 4 times. It has been sleeved twice, and its world products block from like 2005. So I'm gun shy

So who is within 250 miles of Chicago and still does decent Long block assembly for older Mopars.

Conclusion: What the hell is happening to these shops? No wonder my other plan is to dump the old [censored] and buy a Challenger like everyone else. Then at least I can call Arrington and build something modern.

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

chuck@tamrazs.com








What do you think a stroker 400 with TF heads that makes good power, and lasts for years should cost?


Brian Hafliger
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624599
02/22/19 09:02 AM
02/22/19 09:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
I mean no offense by saying this, but the labor rate you must charge to keep smart, and capable guys dictates 15,000 dollar short blocks. 6 out of ten "race shops" shouldn't build law mower engines. Either they don't know, don't care, or they need to steal to support racing, or drugs/lifestyle.

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624600
02/22/19 09:09 AM
02/22/19 09:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
Going on to say, another problem is great shops often have zero concept of time. The shop that delivers quality, on time is worth paying near double the going rate.

We only have so many days of health sufficient to race/hotrod. That time is worth 10 times a few extra shekels to guys that earn it.

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: dthemi] #2624641
02/22/19 12:26 PM
02/22/19 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
Originally Posted By dthemi
I mean no offense by saying this, but the labor rate you must charge to keep smart, and capable guys dictates 15,000 dollar short blocks. 6 out of ten "race shops" shouldn't build law mower engines. Either they don't know, don't care, or they need to steal to support racing, or drugs/lifestyle.


SAD but too TRUE! How many of us have been in machine shop or chassis prison! mad


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: TamrazsParts] #2624650
02/22/19 12:45 PM
02/22/19 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Mequon, WI
G
gzig5 Offline
enthusiast
gzig5  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Mequon, WI
I was planning to use Kilpatrick Engine and Trans in Waukesha, WI.
http://www.kilpatrickengine.com/
I don't have any direct experience other than they seem to have done a good job on my 727TF at a good price. I've not been able to find anything negative and folks I've have talked to that used him were happy. He speaks Mopar, runs a sub 7 second 63 Polara, and seemed to have a well equipped shop.

Re: Mopar Engine Builders - who is actually out there [Re: Al_Alguire] #2624673
02/22/19 01:46 PM
02/22/19 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,009
MN
J
JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,009
MN
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
IMO just find a GOOD MACHINE SHOP. Round is round, square is square, flat is flat.


When I first got into this, I asked my machinist if he knew Mopars. He said "It's a chunk of iron, it doesn't know what it is". I've never questioned him again, and never had a problem with his work.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
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