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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: HealthServices]
#262373
03/22/09 09:21 PM
03/22/09 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,572
md
mopars4ever
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,572
md
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: mopars4ever]
#262375
03/22/09 09:32 PM
03/22/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
OP
Why would you even post that?
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OP
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I thought they were all made in china  Just don't want the new one to break too. I found his post. Funny how quickly the threads get pushed back.
Last edited by HealthServices; 03/22/09 09:52 PM.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#262379
03/22/09 10:18 PM
03/22/09 10:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Was it a rebuilt one or a new one? How long had it been installed?
Did it rub up against the block? Wasn't there some deal about mini starters and big blocks. Lie you had to grind the block for clearance or get a certain mini starter?
Thats a good point. If there was ANY contact with the block the starter bolts could have induced tremendous pressure on the snout as it was tightened down.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#262381
03/22/09 10:31 PM
03/22/09 10:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
OP
Why would you even post that?
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OP
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I have these wonderful Hedman 2-1/8 headers that touched the starter.  So when I replaced it this last time I dented the header so they would not touch. and wrapped the tube with heatwrap.  Last long Mini touch but did not break. This short mini did not touch but broke. I just put a RobbMC starter in today.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: HealthServices]
#262382
03/22/09 10:45 PM
03/22/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,572
md
mopars4ever
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,572
md
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Quote:
I thought they were all made in china
Nope, just the cheap junk ones
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: mopars4ever]
#262383
03/22/09 10:52 PM
03/22/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
OP
Why would you even post that?
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OP
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Well the RobbMC starter looks pretty nice. I forgot but I think they use the Hitachi motor vs. the Nippondenso.  Hopefully I won't have this problem again they certainly don't look like they will get heat soaked. The big plus is they can be clocked into any position as long as it does not hit something.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: HealthServices]
#262385
03/23/09 11:31 AM
03/23/09 11:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
RobbMc
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
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Quote:
Well the RobbMC starter looks pretty nice. I forgot but I think they use the Hitachi motor vs. the Nippondenso.
Hopefully I won't have this problem again they certainly don't look like they will get heat soaked. The big plus is they can be clocked into any position as long as it does not hit something.
Thanks HS. We use US designed Remy (f.k.a. Delco Remy) motors and solenoids. Everything forward of the motor is our own design.
You should have a lot more header clearance with our starter. Not only can you rotate the solenoid to any position, but our motor is directly behind the pinion gear on the starter (rather than offset to one side). This puts the motor closer to the block, approximately where the solenoid is on your old Denso style starter.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: lewtot184]
#262392
03/23/09 02:19 PM
03/23/09 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
been there, done that! the top hole on those starters is too large for a 7/16 stud or bolt. sleeve the top hole for a 7/16 fastener and the problem is cured. i think what happens is the starter kicks or torques over from a hard start or backfire and the big top hole lets it rotate enough to snap the locating snout. the snout is just a locater and isn't meant to carry a load.
I did it to a starter I had , belongs to fast68plymouth now.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#262394
03/23/09 03:45 PM
03/23/09 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
Now I'm offically worried about my ministarter.
Me too , I had one in the dart for a short time , it didn't break though ???
I have to buy a RobbMc starter for the hemi , maybe it'll do double duty ??? 
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: JohnRR]
#262398
03/23/09 04:08 PM
03/23/09 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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Sometimes you need a factory shim or two to fit the starter. I try not to use one like everyone else, but sometimes something just doesn't 'feel' right when you are installing the starter.
In the factory, they usually use at least one shim. I have seen the assembler been instructed to use multiples on some days, (many years ago).
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: racealittle]
#262399
03/23/09 04:12 PM
03/23/09 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Sometimes you need a factory shim or two to fit the starter. I try not to use one like everyone else, but sometimes something just doesn't 'feel' right when you are installing the starter.
In the factory, they usually use at least one shim. I have seen the assembler been instructed to use multiples on some days, (many years ago).
Good point , is it called a shim but on a big block? I think it's more a shield to keep the road debris and water out of that area ??
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: Dodgem]
#262401
03/23/09 04:37 PM
03/23/09 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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I have pulled the fairly new starter from a 3.9 1989 Dakota and found the nose broken off. There was no shim in place. The shim is the size of the machined mounting surface. The starter was designed to fit into this machined surface and the factory uses at least one shim. The mechanic who worked on the vehicle last chose to omit the shim. 99% of the time, there seems to be no problem ommitting the shim (at least to me).
GM starters require proper fitment shims to eliminate premature parts failure (454 motorhome for example).
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: JohnRR]
#262403
03/23/09 05:04 PM
03/23/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Hopefully the rob mc addresses this or at leat what looks like a billet snout is stronger than the cast one on the mini. ???
Robb supports the pinion gear now with a bushing in the snout. It's now impossible for the pinion gear/shaft to deflect during use. He also added more planetary gears along the way. It really looks bulletproof from this point.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: HealthServices]
#262405
03/23/09 06:01 PM
03/23/09 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
moparts
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
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I would say that the broken nose cone on the starter is because of,
The starter was not sitting flush in the bellhousing, either the nose cone not fitting right or main body not aligned right, which put a side load on the nose of the starter.
or
the engine was kicking back on start up, which has broken many old style mopar starters, crossed ign, wirers , bad wirers on number 5 & or 7 cylinder with spark jumping over and or too much cranking timing.
Tom ,
2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: moparts]
#262406
03/23/09 06:59 PM
03/23/09 06:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
OP
Why would you even post that?
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OP
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I think crank timing has a lot to do with it. I think I will have to put a timing retard when cranking or just a kill switch for now.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: moparts]
#262407
03/23/09 07:19 PM
03/23/09 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
RobbMc
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
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Quote:
I would say that the broken nose cone on the starter is because of,
The starter was not sitting flush in the bellhousing, either the nose cone not fitting right or main body not aligned right, which put a side load on the nose of the starter.
or
the engine was kicking back on start up, which has broken many old style mopar starters, crossed ign, wirers , bad wirers on number 5 & or 7 cylinder with spark jumping over and or too much cranking timing.
Yep, if the engine kicks back hard enough, something is going to break. On our starter the nose cone won't break, but you might break a tooth off the pinion gear or one of the planetary gears.
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Re: What would cause my starter to break?
[Re: RobbMc]
#262408
03/23/09 11:13 PM
03/23/09 11:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
OP
Why would you even post that?
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OP
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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The starter phased 3 ways 1 o'clock  3 o'clock  5 o'clock  All with plenty of room 
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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mini long 
RobMC 
