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Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: WO23Coronet] #2621084
02/14/19 01:33 AM
02/14/19 01:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
I think Mopar Action did one back in the day (It was on 440 blocks but probably still applicable to 400's) and they found the later blocks were cast thicker and more consistent, but were of a slightly softer grade of cast iron. I'd look for a later block and try your luck there

All 440 block, regardless of the year cast, are no where near as good as a decent 400 block for building, trust me on that twocents
You need to remember that not all magazine writers are real hot rod guys with hands on experiences that know something about what there writing about, I've seen that personally time and time again down


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621087
02/14/19 01:49 AM
02/14/19 01:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,154
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Online Work
"Little"John

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Posts: 20,154
PA.
I’ve ran 440 blocks for years without concrete or sonic checking them. One 440 block (Stroker) cracked up thru the mains after 275 eight second passes and was found when I tore it down for rebuild. Sometimes you don’t want to know how bad things are. Lol 😂


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621091
02/14/19 01:59 AM
02/14/19 01:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline
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bean town ....Ca
Bummer man hope it works out


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621115
02/14/19 02:50 AM
02/14/19 02:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Factory blocks are always a crap shoot. That is why I refuse to pay more than a few hundred bucks for a core engine. The year doesn't matter and neither does the HP stamp. You just have to buy the blocks and spend the time to clean them up and then you find out if it is good or not.

Good news is that 400 blocks are still fairly easy to find. I'm sure you could find one within a week on craigslist.

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: Cab_Burge] #2621125
02/14/19 03:21 AM
02/14/19 03:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
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WO23Coronet  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
I think Mopar Action did one back in the day (It was on 440 blocks but probably still applicable to 400's) and they found the later blocks were cast thicker and more consistent, but were of a slightly softer grade of cast iron. I'd look for a later block and try your luck there

All 440 block, regardless of the year cast, are no where near as good as a decent 400 block for building, trust me on that twocents
You need to remember that not all magazine writers are real hot rod guys with hands on experiences that know something about what there writing about, I've seen that personally time and time again down


Cab, I wasn't espousing the benefits of a 440 block over a 400 block (there are none, the 400 is a better foundation to build on for sure). I was merely pointing out Mopar Actions experience, in an article written by Ehrenberg (sp?), that the later blocks were thicker and more consistent. Yes they were 440 blocks but I imagine it transfers over to the 400's as well. If I remember correctly they tested around 20 blocks. Love him or hate him Ehrenberg seems to be at least a legit car guy who gets his hands dirty

Last edited by WO23Coronet; 02/14/19 03:23 AM.
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: WO23Coronet] #2621148
02/14/19 04:45 AM
02/14/19 04:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
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Bend,OR USA
All the stock RB blocks are a lot thinner in the main webbing under the cylinders down to the main bores than any of the stock 400 blocks made shruggy scope
I've heard of a lot more 400 blocks having severe core shift than the early 440 blocks but when you crack a cylinder wall or the main webbing that block sis toast, correct?
I would much rather crack a cylinder wall and have that cylinder quit working and find it right away than end up running over the crankshaft due to the main webbing falling out on the track or on the road work up
I've had one 426 M.W. block crack the main webbing and seen several 440 blocks that had done that also, no 400 blocks crack the main webbing so far luck


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: Cab_Burge] #2621372
02/14/19 06:02 PM
02/14/19 06:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
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WO23Coronet  Offline
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Canada
Yep, that’s why I said the 400 block is better. No one is telling him to use a 440 block. Only linked the MA article to show that later blocks should be thicker in the cylinder bores

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621466
02/14/19 11:33 PM
02/14/19 11:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,557
New Smyrna Beach FL
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scottb Offline
pro stock
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New Smyrna Beach FL
Like it was said before just sleeve it my old R block had 4 sleeves in it

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621533
02/15/19 03:10 AM
02/15/19 03:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,278
Mission BC
10sec440 Offline
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Mission BC
I'll tell you my block story. I've ran 570ish HP 440's for years (10.20's 3400lbs) and had a lot of luck with them. I'd split a cylinder or a main web once in a while and machine up another old block and use all my guts. After 18 seasons of this,(3500+ passes) I got the urge to go faster finally.

I thought about going Gen3 and did all the math. The engine build is about the same if you're starting from scratch,but the Gen3 you have to change the trans,buy headers,oil pan, trans sheild,a thousand dollar intake, the MSD box etc and it all adds up.

I went with the low deck 511 stroker since I had one of the good 230 blocks with the thick webbing I had been holding onto for 20 some years.You could see the core shift in the front cam tunnel bore. The block was good and thick, except right near one of the upper head bolt holes it was under .100" so I decided not to use it.Went through 3 other blocks before we found one that was suitable,the thinnest spot we could find was just over .200" thick.

Pump gas motor, no fill, Indy -1 heads and it ran good, 9.70's but it didn't last the full season and it split #1 cylinder down low on the thrust side.I finally found another usable block recently after checking 3 more. This one is getting a half fill and going together using all the same parts.

I kind of regret going low deck, the stock block has it's limits and the aftermarket block situation is not good. I think it's possible there might be some more choices coming up for the RB, but not the low deck.Looking back, if I had it to do over again I would probably go Gen3. The stock block is pretty stout, and there are so many around it's like 440's were in the 80's, dime a dozen.

Last edited by 10sec440; 02/15/19 03:12 AM.
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: WO23Coronet] #2621792
02/15/19 06:48 PM
02/15/19 06:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
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Triggerfish Offline
top fuel
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Blairsden, CA
I've got a 77 400 block I bought yrs ago & it sonic tested well. Been in storage at a local shop for years. GLad I didn't get an early version.

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: 10sec440] #2621801
02/15/19 07:26 PM
02/15/19 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094
central texas
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krautrock Offline
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central texas
Originally Posted By 10sec440
I'll tell you my block story. I've ran 570ish HP 440's for years (10.20's 3400lbs) and had a lot of luck with them. I'd split a cylinder or a main web once in a while and machine up another old block and use all my guts. After 18 seasons of this,(3500+ passes) I got the urge to go faster finally.

I thought about going Gen3 and did all the math. The engine build is about the same if you're starting from scratch,but the Gen3 you have to change the trans,buy headers,oil pan, trans sheild,a thousand dollar intake, the MSD box etc and it all adds up.

I went with the low deck 511 stroker since I had one of the good 230 blocks with the thick webbing I had been holding onto for 20 some years.You could see the core shift in the front cam tunnel bore. The block was good and thick, except right near one of the upper head bolt holes it was under .100" so I decided not to use it.Went through 3 other blocks before we found one that was suitable,the thinnest spot we could find was just over .200" thick.

Pump gas motor, no fill, Indy -1 heads and it ran good, 9.70's but it didn't last the full season and it split #1 cylinder down low on the thrust side.I finally found another usable block recently after checking 3 more. This one is getting a half fill and going together using all the same parts.

I kind of regret going low deck, the stock block has it's limits and the aftermarket block situation is not good. I think it's possible there might be some more choices coming up for the RB, but not the low deck.Looking back, if I had it to do over again I would probably go Gen3. The stock block is pretty stout, and there are so many around it's like 440's were in the 80's, dime a dozen.


you think the long stroke and shorter rods had more to do with the failure than the extra power?
what rod length were you using?

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: krautrock] #2621861
02/15/19 09:37 PM
02/15/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
Originally Posted By krautrock


you think the long stroke and shorter rods had more to do with the failure than the extra power?
what rod length were you using?


See, that's what I was thinking as well, but what do I know.

(Personally never went over 3.75 until I got an aftermarket block, now I'm going way up to 4.500...but the reason for the 3.75 was much more about being broke, and much less about being smart)

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621863
02/15/19 09:39 PM
02/15/19 09:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 150
It's Complicated
HDNMOPERS Offline OP
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HDNMOPERS  Offline OP
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It's Complicated
Got a line 2 blocks. Little bit of a road trip to look at them in the Carolinas. Guy from on here MSGd me he has one. But it's in Oregon. Nothing local. Which sucks because I passed on 2 a while back. In regards to my build. Pretty confident if I can just find a good block. I should be safe block wise. It should never see over 6000. Though component wise it could go over that easy. Basically this gonna be low rpm tractor like torque engine. 100% Street manners engine with OD. I do appreciate all the input and advice from everyone.

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621979
02/16/19 01:58 AM
02/16/19 01:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
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My first pump gas 400 stroker 511 C.I. motor ended up needing four sleeves in it, two due to the block being blown out on the deck surface between # 4 and 6 and two on the other side(#1 and #7) due to bad pitting that boring it to 4.375 wouldn't clean out whiney
I already had the 6.800 long BB Chevy type H beam rods and custom forged Ross dished pistons along with the Ohio Crankshaft CO 4.25 stroke low deck crank and I couldn't find another good 400 block so I went with having four ductile iron sleeves installed and I never regretted doing that boogie I also had a set of Mopar brand Ductile iron main caps installed with ARP main studs up
I beat on that motor from day one and it exceeded all my expectations and never let me down, Fast TOO devil
One of the past members on here, R.I.P. Dan angel couldn't, wouldn't believe me when I posted the first dyno testing results when that motor had a set of ported with big valves BB 906 heads with 9.25 to 1 compression ratio and was 511 C.I. with a low deck eddy six pack set up on it. That combination made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM on CA 91 octane pump swill boogie
I ended up changing to four different sets of heads and ended up changing the crankshaft from the original 4.25 stroke to 4.300 stroke to raise the pistons up from -.025 down to zero deck to raise the compression from 9.25 to 1 to 10.29 to 1. I kept the same block,cam shaft, rods and pistons and I swapped the heads and intakes only after the crankshaft change the second year.
It ended up with a set of Indy SR Max wedge port size heads and a Indy 400-3 intake with a 1050 CFM Holley 9375 non HP Dominator carb. on it which made 727 HP at 7000 RPM on a DTS engine dyno on 92 octane Oregon pump swill in Klamath Falls, OR which is at 4300 ft. altitude devil
I now have several other 400 block stroker motors that I built and I'm looking forward to using on the street and at the track up
BTW, that motor had a custom ground Com Cams solid roller cam that liked to RPM, I have shifted that motor with the 440 type heads and six pack at 7800 RPM and it wasn't slowing down on the RPM gain per second in second gear shock I ended up trying to shift it between 7000 to 7300 RPM from then on up
That stupid motor didn't follow any of the normal rules for six pack motors, but it wasn't a normal six pack motor either devil boogie
Don't be afraid to experiment up twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621989
02/16/19 02:17 AM
02/16/19 02:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,154
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Online Work
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,154
PA.
You guys can send me all these scrap blocks. I’ll find a use for them


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2621996
02/16/19 02:50 AM
02/16/19 02:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,448
Morristown Tn.
7
71birdJ68 Offline
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71birdJ68  Offline
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Morristown Tn.
I'm in Morristown and I have a 400 I'd like to get rid of.

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2622006
02/16/19 03:32 AM
02/16/19 03:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
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Posts: 30,994
Oregon
I just bought two blocks today for $375. A guy on CL had a 440 block for sale for $200. Went to look at it and he had a second block that he also wanted to sell. Both are standard bore and super clean. He works at an engine shop and ended up with more blocks than he had space for.

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: 71birdJ68] #2622061
02/16/19 12:01 PM
02/16/19 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 150
It's Complicated
HDNMOPERS Offline OP
member
HDNMOPERS  Offline OP
member

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Posts: 150
It's Complicated
Sent you a PM if you don't see it shoot me a call Im in Rogersville number is 423-921-4975 or send me your number

Last edited by HDNMOPERS; 02/16/19 12:07 PM.
Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: AndyF] #2622065
02/16/19 12:06 PM
02/16/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 150
It's Complicated
HDNMOPERS Offline OP
member
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It's Complicated
Good for you Andy got to tell you im jealous lol my area is dead right now for blocks it seems or they are just not putting them on CL or FB marketplace right now

Re: Bad Block News Today [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2622583
02/17/19 04:39 PM
02/17/19 04:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric Offline
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Pittsburgh PA
Originally Posted By HDNMOPERS
Got a line 2 blocks. Little bit of a road trip to look at them in the Carolinas. Guy from on here MSGd me he has one. But it's in Oregon. Nothing local. Which sucks because I passed on 2 a while back. In regards to my build. Pretty confident if I can just find a good block. I should be safe block wise. It should never see over 6000. Though component wise it could go over that easy. Basically this gonna be low rpm tractor like torque engine. 100% Street manners engine with OD. I do appreciate all the input and advice from everyone.




Where is TN are you ? I’ll look and see if I can find one.


5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!

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