Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Handygun]
#2614739
01/30/19 08:33 PM
01/30/19 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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w/r/t longer rod with corresponding longer dwell would increase the ram effect of the moving column of air IMHO some change will be the IVC point (in terms of remaining stroke at the same crank position) will be later with the same cam, which allows a longer window of inertia fill ABDC, but the change is so small with any rod you could use to be more easily accomplished with retarded intake.
I'm trying to reconcile the new 10.5" of IR to the 15" used in the cross-ram?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: longram60]
#2614806
01/30/19 10:52 PM
01/30/19 10:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Interesting tech article from Hughes Engines that shows flow test of a 'short' long ram compared to more traditional intakes. Hughes Intake Manifolds Tests That was a worthwhile read. The Op may not like though.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Handygun]
#2615446
02/01/19 03:13 AM
02/01/19 03:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 304 Portland, Oregon
Digger73
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Portland, Oregon
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The best way to wake up this manifold is to ditch the Carter carbs and install a set of Holley vacuum carbs. Made a very big difference on mine.
Digger73 (Mike)
I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Handygun]
#2615713
02/01/19 08:41 PM
02/01/19 08:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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The bolt pattern is different, which means you need either to plug the holes and re-tap the manifolds (!!!), or use adapters (which add plenum volume and vertical height to the install). IIRC modest plenum volume was a key element in making the 4,500 lb. car with 2.93 axle and low stall speed responsive in traffic - I drove a 300F back in the day, and you wouldn't know what was under the hood unless you looked. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Four_barrel_mounting_flanges.htmBefore you do that: in my (somewhat limited and ancient) experience, the single biggest tune up problems with AFB is poor tip-in response - without attempting to modify the air door counterweight. I agree it's annoying (especially to match them), but there are hints as to where to remove or add weight to match your plenum, pump shot, idle quality, stall speed etc.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: polyspheric]
#2615768
02/01/19 11:18 PM
02/01/19 11:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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If I remember correctly, with OEM style air cleaners, there is not a lot of vertical underhood clearance ( 300F & its been nearly 50? years ), I would think an adapter and a taller carb might get one into trouble?
Last edited by jcc; 02/01/19 11:23 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Digger73]
#2615891
02/02/19 09:28 AM
02/02/19 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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The Netherlands
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The best way to wake up this manifold is to ditch the Carter carbs and install a set of Holley vacuum carbs. Made a very big difference on mine.
Digger73 (Mike) No... the best way to improve them is to install throttle bodies and machine for fuel-injectors near the heads. This improves cold starts by preventing fuel from forming back on the tube-walls again. How about extrude hone these manifolds? Or something more DIY and less expensive and install a large sanding roll on a flexible extension and grind away the casting roughness in those tubes (eventhough a smooth surface won't always mean flow is less restrictive compared to an as cast-surface texture).
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Digger73]
#2615909
02/02/19 11:39 AM
02/02/19 11:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841
MI, usa
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The best way to wake up this manifold is to ditch the Carter carbs and install a set of Holley vacuum carbs. Made a very big difference on mine.
Digger73 (Mike) Apparently you missed Als post. His 60 Plymouth runs 11's like clockwork with two 500 Carter's. Take it from me as I run against him. The car is dead on all the time. Doug
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#2616055
02/02/19 05:36 PM
02/02/19 05:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
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No... the best way to improve them is to install throttle bodies and machine for fuel-injectors near the heads. This improves cold starts by preventing fuel from forming back on the tube-walls again.
i have thought about this idea for several years, just machining a couple of plates that would sandwich between the heads and intakes to position the injectors and fuel rails. as my panel truck project will not have a hood, height of the intakes at the base means nothing. however, in the world when these were new, there was not much under hood room for adapters and ail filters.
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: dvw]
#2616064
02/02/19 05:59 PM
02/02/19 05:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 284 STL ,MO
Handygun
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 284
STL ,MO
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The best way to wake up this manifold is to ditch the Carter carbs and install a set of Holley vacuum carbs. Made a very big difference on mine.
Digger73 (Mike) Apparently you missed Als post. His 60 Plymouth runs 11's like clockwork with two 500 Carter's. Take it from me as I run against him. The car is dead on all the time. Doug Al's car runs hard have seen it many times He is also a decent fella, took and posted a pic of my 58 wgn on a different site for me once, no disrespect Al I forgot, I coulda PM'ed you on this.
Last edited by Handygun; 02/02/19 06:00 PM.
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: Handygun]
#2616077
02/02/19 06:17 PM
02/02/19 06:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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The original 300F & G cars had a removable panel for spark plug maintenance in the inner fender accessible only from inside the wheel well.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: polyspheric]
#2616196
02/02/19 11:04 PM
02/02/19 11:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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The original 300F & G cars had a removable panel for spark plug maintenance in the inner fender accessible only from inside the wheel well. And again, if my memory serves me correctly, the panel's main purpose was to visually verify indeed, the motor had 8 plugs. Which makes me think adding real headers might cause another dilemma, like setting valve lash hassles. Have yet to hear many add headers, even with cutting off the plenum floor chambers.
Last edited by jcc; 02/02/19 11:07 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: billohio]
#2616280
02/03/19 02:12 AM
02/03/19 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693 Dunnellon, FL
longram60
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693
Dunnellon, FL
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I have a 61 G and getting ready to order a cam. The engine builder and I discussed this Voodoo hydraulic roller (smallest they have for this engine). What do you guys think? Engine is 30 over 413, 10 to 1. Car to be restored to stock but has ross pistons and new rods
adv duration 262/270 dur .050 211/219 gross valve lift .507/.515 LSA/ICL 112/106 RPM 1400-5400
Sounded like good torque cam to move this boat around My cam's a little bigger (but so is my engine). Also a hydraulic roller, Hughes Engine: Duration @ .050 228/236 lift .510/.533 LSA/IC 108/104 RPM 2800-6600 I also have a high stall converter. It will flash to about 3000. RPM
Last edited by longram60; 02/03/19 02:17 AM.
1979 AMC Spirit, NHRA Q/SA
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Re: cross ram physics
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#2616891
02/04/19 03:03 PM
02/04/19 03:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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I've had two different vehicles, a 1 ton car hauler and later a 1 1/2 ton class a motorhome, that ran on both gasoline and propane. Neither one ran as good on propane as they did on gasoline Horrible fuel mileage and a lot of power loss on propane The motor home was on straight propane when I bought it and it had very little power, I mess with the mixer and got better power and ended up with horrible mileage I removed that system and put it back on gasoline only and got better power and mileage, it did run hotter also More power = more heat
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/04/19 03:05 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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