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Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: NANKET] #2611943
01/25/19 05:42 AM
01/25/19 05:42 AM
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North Central USA (MN-WI area)
MuscleMopars Offline OP
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Originally Posted By NANKET
Originally Posted By MuscleMopars
Here are a few poctures


Many coats on the side of the car and none are red like Sox cars. I'm not seeing the sox lineage from here.


I’m sure this R0 car had many owners over the first 10-15 years and it did have many paint jobs. The Paint could have been stripped each time or maybe it was painted over, who knows? Those spots you see where I sanded through the paint were done about 18 years ago. It was then I realized I needed to do it in a slow, layer by layer way so it could be documented and maybe find some lettering. Well, 18 years later I still haven’t had time to do it that way so it sits. It sure would be great if someone kept VIN numbers by owners or someone from that area it obviously was from could identify it or know some history. The fact that 4 speed R0 cars were rare and probably stood out in the day should jog someone’s memory that might read this post!?


Thanks,
Eric
email eric@musclemopars.com
715-426-HEMI
612-669-CARS

Go to my Moparts "Profile" to see my web site
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2611957
01/25/19 09:36 AM
01/25/19 09:36 AM
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McCandlessboy Offline
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They are a pain to identify. I’m still looking for dads.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: McCandlessboy] #2611974
01/25/19 11:26 AM
01/25/19 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted By McCandlessboy
They are a pain to identify. I’m still looking for dads.


Maybe this is it? Your Dad's car was mainly Blue and White.

On a side note, if the car had any pinstriping, that stuff bleeds down into the paint, and leaves a trace. I have a car that had some, and after putting some paint stripper on the C pillar, the old pinstriping reappeared.

pistripes.jpg

69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: McCandlessboy] #2611981
01/25/19 11:57 AM
01/25/19 11:57 AM
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Green Lane, PA
sawdust Offline
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Originally Posted By McCandlessboy
They are a pain to identify. I’m still looking for dads.


Herb is correct, they are difficult to identify who had the car unless you know the full history of owners. Two of mine I do, (luckily only the 4th owner on them) but the third is a mystery, although the body is perfect and basically original paint with one lame lacquer respray.

I doubt the car posted is the Sox Car, they only had one real R023, the others were GTX's or clones. The original is accounted for from what I understand.

I have a spreadsheet with a majority of the VINS and SO numbers for the R023 cars and some of the W023 cars.

Just my 2¢

Picture of two of them at Carlisle in 2017

IMG_0066.jpg

1967 RO23 4 speed
1967 RO23 4 speed "Poison Ivy"
1967 RO23 4 speed "A-Town Hustler"
1967 NSS Belvedere Post 4 speed
1970 Triple red hemi cuda
2016 PCP Hellcat M6
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2611989
01/25/19 12:09 PM
01/25/19 12:09 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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Phew! Thought I remembered them having a 440 car as well as a Hemi.

Nanket: the Belvedere & GTX trims being on the same car tells me that was likely an RO body with GTX trim added to be legal SS/E. Reason would be the lighter RO; S&M wouldn't have to strip seam sealer & etc.

As noted, little build details are good clues; that helped a lot to confirm history on my own car.

The name Dave Christie just popped into my head, as being affiliated with S&M, but I could be wrong. Herb McCandless may know something about the S&M '67s, though I don't know how involved he was with them at that time.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: topside] #2612007
01/25/19 12:40 PM
01/25/19 12:40 PM
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Southern Maryland
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To bad Bob Reed died recently. I'm sure he knew the S&M car well.


67 Barracuda FB 69 Superbee "Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612032
01/25/19 01:34 PM
01/25/19 01:34 PM
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Didn't Herb start driving for Sox&Martin in '68?


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612037
01/25/19 01:48 PM
01/25/19 01:48 PM
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Topside, we may never know if it was a GTX or RO. Makes sense to use a RO23 car for the weight. but a GTX was much easier to obtain than an RO23 if they were in a hurry.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612156
01/25/19 05:55 PM
01/25/19 05:55 PM
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Harrisburg
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A lot of people forget that the RO/WO cars weren't built until March of 1967. Sox & Martin started the year out with two cars...a 440 GTX (White interior, bucket seat car), and a plain Belvedere II.

I've heard that the Belvedere was an original 383 car, but have never confirmed. The Belvedere was raced as a flat hood Hemi car at the AHRA Winters at Beeline, and the NHRA Winters at Pomona. There are numerous photos of this car. This car was raced as a flat hood car, a Hemi GTX, and an RO23. You can identify it in the photos as the Belvedere emblem on the fender was replaced with a rectangular Hemi badge (typically found on the lower fender). I believe this car stayed at Sox and Martin through 1968. I know they were contractually obligated to keep one '67 car into 1968.

The 440 GTX remained a 440 car throughout it's career at S&M, they did add the Belvedere trim to the GTX. It remained a 440 car after Sox & Martin sold it. This car always had the GTX emblem on the trunklid (right corner), even after it was sold.

The RO23 car came a little later in 1967. This is the car Dave Strickler drove at Indy. They didn't keep it long. Not even a year.

If you find pictures of the cars at Indy, the Belvedere was #716, the RO23 was #717, and the GTX #718.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612228
01/25/19 07:41 PM
01/25/19 07:41 PM
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North Central USA (MN-WI area)
MuscleMopars Offline OP
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There is an entry on dodgecharger.com that says this:

Spring 1967...Hillside Chrysler -Plymouth, Springfield PA- while my 66 barracuda was getting a dealer servicing, strolled into showroom and saw it there- a sparkling white, 67 belvedere track hemi car...new...in the showroom...huge scooped hood, basic black bench seat, rubber floor, trunk mount battery...narrow throwaway tires on 15 inch skinny wheels w dogdish caps...radio delete, of course..but also, heater delete..and a monster hemi up front, fresh from the factory...i almost FAINTED when i sat behind the wheel...realizing what this monster was capable of...i crawled underneath to view the dana, and noticed lack of undercoating..and monstrous springs. Went home completely unable to even speak in normal sentences. (car was sold the next day to area racer.)

That had to be my car!!!


Thanks,
Eric
email eric@musclemopars.com
715-426-HEMI
612-669-CARS

Go to my Moparts "Profile" to see my web site
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612392
01/26/19 01:40 AM
01/26/19 01:40 AM
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You know that some cats from as far up as Maine would trek down to Pa or Maryland to fetch delivery of special cars such as that. The only one local to me is the "Native American" car, still with its owner but I'm not sure where that one was ordered or picked up from originally.
For sure special unsung hero cars in their own time and beyond. Probably more aero compared to the A-864 and A-990's.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612393
01/26/19 01:42 AM
01/26/19 01:42 AM
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Well that's a cool development, Eric.
The guys memory is off a bit tho. They didn't have hubcaps, and I'm pretty sure they had carpet with no padding.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612396
01/26/19 01:49 AM
01/26/19 01:49 AM
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So, accounting for 4 speed cars: Sawdust has 3, I have 1, Eric has 1, someone has the sox and martin car, there's RO23j71206022 that Mecum sold in Kissimmee in 2013. That's 7 of the 17 accounted for right there. Maybe Erics is the McCandless car? Did the McCandless car come from PA?

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612399
01/26/19 02:14 AM
01/26/19 02:14 AM
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The interior of the RO cars was H4X Belvedere II interior with carpet. The wheels should have been 15X6" but they could have put on skinny wheels and caps.

image.jpg
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2612449
01/26/19 06:24 AM
01/26/19 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
So, accounting for 4 speed cars: Sawdust has 3, I have 1, Eric has 1, someone has the sox and martin car, there's RO23j71206022 that Mecum sold in Kissimmee in 2013. That's 7 of the 17 accounted for right there. Maybe Erics is the McCandless car? Did the McCandless car come from PA?


Herb’s car was ordered through AJ Thomas C-P in Memphis.

I have 14 4-speed vins that I have collected, 9 of which I can put some sort of ownership trail to. I do not sell my information. I started putting an original owner list together on the ‘67 cars a number of years ago which progressed into collecting numbers over time.

As far as people traveling to buy these cars...few and far on the original owners. I have found that almost every original owner that I have been able to determine ordered the car through their local dealer. I do not have a lot of Dodge info, but there is a possibility that Mr. Norm ordered a batch similar to the ‘68 cars.

Here’s a car I don’t really know anything about other than it was in SCPA/No. MD in the mid-late 1970’s. I like the color match between this car and the OP’s Car. Maybe sand at some of the C-pillar? It appears this car has some kind of lace design there.

77D19B13-DEB6-4FF2-9A67-8DBC2470F64A.jpeg
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: sixpakdodge] #2612457
01/26/19 09:55 AM
01/26/19 09:55 AM
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North Central USA (MN-WI area)
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I tracked this picture down on the Internet last night. My car has Blue on the leading edge of the front fenders, Blue on the A and C pillars, White only on the roof, Blue on the tops of the fenders and rear 1/4’s. This “Mr 4 Speed” car sure looks like it could be it!!!

Mine even has the holes for front wheel opening moldings screws...

7B8F2C3B-5C60-4AF7-BA51-6C8A33C7C4E0.png
Last edited by MuscleMopars; 01/26/19 10:41 AM.

Thanks,
Eric
email eric@musclemopars.com
715-426-HEMI
612-669-CARS

Go to my Moparts "Profile" to see my web site
Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612571
01/26/19 02:27 PM
01/26/19 02:27 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
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Note that the McCandless car also has Belvedere II side trim and a white bucket interior. And Keystones. The wheel-opening trim is kinda baffling. Looks like a GTX emblem at the forward fender.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: sixpakdodge] #2612805
01/26/19 10:54 PM
01/26/19 10:54 PM
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Maryland
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This is my car, which I purchased from Jerry in 1985. Jerry was the second owner and I am the third.

The car was sold by Sellers Sales and Service in Riverdale, Maryland (Dealer Code #37509). The first owner lived in Beltsville, Maryland. I know his name but would rather not publish it here. As far as I can tell the car has never left Maryland and was raced locally.

I have a copy of the Statement Of Origin from Chrysler dated April 12, 1967. I also obtained a copy of the IBM card from Chrysler, and after a lot of research, figured out to decipher the card. The Shipping Order date on the IBM card shows April 12, 1967. The car was delivered on or about April 21, 1967.

It is also one of the 17 four speeds.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: MuscleMopars] #2612808
01/26/19 11:01 PM
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Good info. Thanks for sharing.

Re: R023 1967 Belvedere II 426 4 spd Super Stock owner history? [Re: sixpakdodge] #2612811
01/26/19 11:22 PM
01/26/19 11:22 PM
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Maryland
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Glad to add to the discussion. I have been trying to find info about these cars since I have owned it.

I also know of another 4-speed RO car that used to be in Maryland and belonged to a friend of mine. It was red and black and was called the "Solomon Shaker", originally came from Michigan.

FYI - the photo in your post looks like it was taken at 75-80 Drag Way in Monrovia, MD. Also, Jerry's car was featured at 75-80 in Car Craft magazine in the November 1977 issue (very small black and white photo).

Last edited by ro23_j; 01/26/19 11:24 PM.
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