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Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? #2605842
01/13/19 01:18 PM
01/13/19 01:18 PM
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PurpleBeeper Offline OP
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I'm running a XE274 comp cam & lifters (hydraulic) with Isky adjustable rocker arms & ball/cup pushrods. The cam has about 500 miles on it. I'm also running old Direct Connection "green stripe" double valve springs. I just set the valve last 3 days ago using the Direct Connection valve lash adjustment method & turned adjuster screws in 3/4 turn after "zero lash"

I've been trying to determine why I have so much noise under my valve covers. I hear these cams are noisy, but this "seems" like too much noise. It's coming from both valve covers.

I pulled one valve cover & noticed that #8 intake rocker arm is adjusted WAY "taller" than the other rockers (like the pushrod is longer). I pulled two pushrods & verified that the #8 intake pushrod is the same length as the others.


So....Is it possible for a lifter to be broken in the "pumped up" position?


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605848
01/13/19 01:23 PM
01/13/19 01:23 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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Think about this, your adjust thread is probably 24tpi, one full turn of preload will be approximately .040", 3/4 of a turn is .030". "Way taller" to me seems considerably more than .030". So even if the lifter maxed out that's all it could raise it.

Slack in the valve train is what usually makes noise.


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Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: Supercuda] #2605850
01/13/19 01:28 PM
01/13/19 01:28 PM
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God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
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You most likely lost the snap ring in the top of the lifter. That will allow the lifter plunger to come up higher in the lifter body causing your problem.


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Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605859
01/13/19 01:41 PM
01/13/19 01:41 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I pulled one valve cover & noticed that #8 intake rocker arm is adjusted WAY "taller" than the other rockers.
This is on base circle? I would readjust em again by getting the dampener on #1 TDC compression & doing both #1 in/ex then a 1/4 turn & doing #8 & so on. You can cut a strip of paper 5.694" (5&11/16) to use as a ruler on your dampener. pull the plugs will make it easier (we don't need more exercise do we!). What Supercuda said, slack is noise.


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Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605868
01/13/19 01:54 PM
01/13/19 01:54 PM
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Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline OP
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Thanks gentlemen, I have not put the #8 intake lobe on the base circle of the cam yet & I definitely need to check it that way. It just looked really odd that ONE adjustment screw was very noticeably "taller" than all the rest of the rocker arms.


IF the snap ring broke on this lifter & that lifter's plunger got stuck up higher than the other lifters (basically making this lifter a taller solid lifter), then it would explain the adjustment difference. My "thought" was that maybe the pushrod on this valve is contacting the base of that rocker arm causing the noise?


It think I may need to get a magnetic tool & slide out that lifter and one more to compare them.


Any more ideas? I will at the very least be re-setting the valve lash on this side of the motor (& likely more)


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605894
01/13/19 02:45 PM
01/13/19 02:45 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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I don't know of any mopar "dual green stripe" spring (there was a dual purple stripe and hopefully your not using those), unless you're including the dampner. if so those springs coil bind rather quickly if installed at 1.88". also I doubt that the rockers are a true 1.5 which can increase lift at the valve. not using enough preload can damage the retaining wire clip if the lifters get pumped up.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605900
01/13/19 03:04 PM
01/13/19 03:04 PM
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Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline OP
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Hey Lew, maybe I have the name wrong, but the springs are the very old Direct Connection dual springs that were listed for the smaller solid lifter cams & as "optional" on the old original Direct Connection purple shaft 292/509 hydraulic cam. This motor was built in 1985 & I have since changed the camshaft (fyi).


At one point I did replace two of the Isky ball/cup pushrods, which made me wonder if my replacements were accidentally the solid-lifter version (slightly longer vs. hydraulic pushrods)…..checked that & the pushrod matches the other ones.

It's just that this one adjustment screw is so much different than the others (visually). My only thought are:
a. I missed adjusting that rocker
b. That valve has a push rod too long (checked that, not it)
c. The lifter is stuck in the fully pumped up position
d. My rocker shaft is loose, so my valve lash adjustments are WAY off.


This all started tracking down valve gear noise. I double checked my rocker/valve cover clearance...no "witness marks" on valve cover baffles. I don't think I have any bent pushrods, but I will roll them all on a mirror just to be sure.

Any other thoughts?


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605936
01/13/19 04:01 PM
01/13/19 04:01 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Warm the motor up first and then readjust them at TDC to see if that fixes the problems scope wrench
let us know your results up
if you do take that one liftter out take a close hard look of it together and then remove the snap retaining ring to see how much the lifter cup raises up in the lifter body, me thinks the oil hole in the lifter body will be exposed once the ratiner ring is remove allowing the oil to drain out which wouldn't hold the lifter cup up enough to make the lifter that much higher work scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/13/19 04:04 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605976
01/13/19 05:04 PM
01/13/19 05:04 PM
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Clearly you have some things to look into but every comp XE fast ramp cam ive used or put in for others makes a noisy motor, as loud as a solid lifter motor at times.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2605978
01/13/19 05:06 PM
01/13/19 05:06 PM
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Seems the last 20 years lifters seem to have gone down in quality. Constantly dealing with the lifters bleeding down after sitting for a few day. I went through several sets of lifters from aftermarket cam vendors with the same problem. Finally found a couple of sets of NOS lifters, problems solved. Nice and quiet.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2605980
01/13/19 05:07 PM
01/13/19 05:07 PM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By PurpleBeeper
Thanks gentlemen, I have not put the #8 intake lobe on the base circle of the cam yet.......



shock Wow.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606007
01/13/19 05:54 PM
01/13/19 05:54 PM
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Sobieski Wi
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bee1971 Offline
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Not Mine

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKHzu16GCGo

But My XE 275HL Sounds Identical At Idle

Much quieter under full throttle


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: bee1971] #2606013
01/13/19 06:02 PM
01/13/19 06:02 PM
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EV2Bird Offline
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Your killin me here, that dont sound like a 318, that sounds like my solid camed stroker. Unless im hearing a lil piston slap, which I doubt.

Also you have the thick thick al. valve covers. If you had the steel or the thin squared off china made covers youd be much louder.

Sounds good though.


Originally Posted By bee1971
Not Mine

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKHzu16GCGo

But My XE 275HL Sounds Identical At Idle

Much quieter under full throttle

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606014
01/13/19 06:02 PM
01/13/19 06:02 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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It’s a sound that was hard to adjust to (No pun intended) if you have not heard similar fast rate cams


Especially after running a Mopar 284/484 Camshaft and lifters for 25 years in the same block
Nice and quiet at idle , right up until I kissed a piston with an intake valve

Hence the rebuild last year


Last edited by bee1971; 01/13/19 06:06 PM.

1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606022
01/13/19 06:10 PM
01/13/19 06:10 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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Point I was trying to make is Purplebeeper might not bee hearing anything unusual

Other then the fact of the XE 274 Camshaft and lifters fast rate sewing machine

That’s why I posted that video of the same cam off YouTube in a 440


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606027
01/13/19 06:12 PM
01/13/19 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By PurpleBeeper
It just looked really odd that ONE adjustment screw was very noticeably "taller" than all the rest of the rocker arms.


You did not say screw in your initial description. If that adjusting screw is sticking out farther than the others did you check your lash? Sounds like the screw loosened not the lifter pumped up. how does it lock the adjusters?

Since you already pulled the valve train apart just eyeball the lifter and see if the snap ring is there but that doesn't sound like the problem.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606029
01/13/19 06:14 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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Purplebeeper can you post a video and sound of your motor at idle once you have it back together ?


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: bee1971] #2606030
01/13/19 06:15 PM
01/13/19 06:15 PM
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EV2Bird Offline
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I mis read your first reply, sorry.


Originally Posted By bee1971
Point I was trying to make is Purplebeeper might not bee hearing anything unusual

Other then the fact of the XE 274 Camshaft and lifters fast rate sewing machine

That’s why I posted that video of the same cam off YouTube in a 440

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606032
01/13/19 06:15 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: EV2Bird] #2606036
01/13/19 06:17 PM
01/13/19 06:17 PM
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bee1971 Offline
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Originally Posted By EV2Bird
I mis read your first reply, sorry.


Originally Posted By bee1971
Point I was trying to make is Purplebeeper might not bee hearing anything unusual

Other then the fact of the XE 274 Camshaft and lifters fast rate sewing machine

That’s why I posted that video of the same cam off YouTube in a 440


LOL Roger

Me pecking on my IPad and watching football at the same time


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
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