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Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: madscientist] #2603053
01/07/19 07:03 PM
01/07/19 07:03 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By fourgearsavoy
Originally Posted By CKessel
See if Liberty works on the Nash. They are well known for manual trans improvements.


Yeah mine shifts lightning fast now devil

Gus beer



If they are face plated like that...IIRC...they won't stay in gear on decel. That's why I just slick shift them and the syncros and put them back together. They shift flawlessly and I don't have to hold it in gear.


I drove mine on the street like that for about 5 years and it doesn't come out of gear. I got pretty good at down shifting it even with a Long V-gate. I have an H-pattern Hurst Comp Plus that I never got the chance to try as I installed a street HEMI box last time it was out.
The Faceplate puts any slick or Pro-shift 833 I have ever driven to shame. The dogs are finished on a slight angle to keep them engaged.

Gus beer

5216865-smallcompletew.shifter.jpg

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603071
01/07/19 08:05 PM
01/07/19 08:05 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Just curious....... if you had the Richmond trans in the car already...... why did you go back to the 833?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: fast68plymouth] #2603097
01/07/19 08:54 PM
01/07/19 08:54 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Just curious....... if you had the Richmond trans in the car already...... why did you go back to the 833?


I put the Doug Nash in the car 30 years ago (1988) and it still has it. I have no intention of putting a four speed in the car, but I might switch to a different transmission if I can't get the Doug Nash to shift properly.

The original four speed with the big long shifter is tucked away in the shop. I'll never use it but I don't think I'll sell it although there probably is some poor guy somewhere trying to restore a '65 Coronet who would love to have it.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603107
01/07/19 09:12 PM
01/07/19 09:12 PM
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Balt. Md
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Good luck with the new eng and the updates Andy ! Ron

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603137
01/07/19 10:21 PM
01/07/19 10:21 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Just curious....... if you had the Richmond trans in the car already...... why did you go back to the 833?


I put the Doug Nash in the car 30 years ago (1988) and it still has it. I have no intention of putting a four speed in the car, but I might switch to a different transmission if I can't get the Doug Nash to shift properly.

The original four speed with the big long shifter is tucked away in the shop. I'll never use it but I don't think I'll sell it although there probably is some poor guy somewhere trying to restore a '65 Coronet who would love to have it.


Sorry..... my highjack got a bit off track.
I was referring to Gus, and it sounded like he had the Richmond in his car, but took it out.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: fast68plymouth] #2603189
01/07/19 11:56 PM
01/07/19 11:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Just curious....... if you had the Richmond trans in the car already...... why did you go back to the 833?


When I first put the Faceplate trans in the car I was racing every other weekend and putting over 100 passes a year on the car and two years ago I didn't even make it to the track once.
I put some street miles on it now so last year I changed it out to a more driver friendly easy to shift cruiser box. The faceplate deal needs to be shifted fast or slow and I wanted to just drive it easy. So over the years I accumulated a very nice set of gears and syncros and put a box together that shifts like butter.

Sorry for the hi-jack Andy

If the fluid change doesn't fix your issue just call me and we can get you fixed up right.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: Jeremiah] #2603288
01/08/19 03:37 AM
01/08/19 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By Jeremiah


Also, if you have a chance can you post a few picture of the tunnel and trans cross member. I'm curious how much room you had to make compared to my gf5r. I'd be interested to see if you like my Long H-pattern over the shifter you are using. They are same-same from the DN for the GF.


Thanks for sharing Andy!



Here are a couple pictures of my existing transmission mount. It is a home built part from back in the 80's when I did this conversion. I didn't have very good fab skills then so it is a solid mount. I'm redoing this crossmember now so I can use a real transmission mount and hopefully cut down on some of the vibration in the car.

DSC_3231 (Large).JPGDSC_3232 (Large).JPG
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603289
01/08/19 03:39 AM
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I just got my new lower shock plates back from powder coating. These have all the tricks that I know of. Tie down loop, jack stand bracket, shock mounts built at the correct angle and location, etc.

DSC_3233 (Large).JPGDSC_3234 (Large).JPG
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603290
01/08/19 03:43 AM
01/08/19 03:43 AM
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One reason I pulled the engine was to replace my old brake line setup. 30 years ago when I first switched over to disc brakes there were not any off the shelf kits for brake lines so I had to build my own. What I came up with has worked for many years but it wasn't pretty. I just recently discovered that Inline Tube had a neat little distribution block for the early B body cars that looks stock but works with a late model Mopar master cylinder. So now I can rip out all of my old crappy brake line work and replace it with some new stuff that looks stock but works much better than anything the factory had in 1965.

DSC_3236 (Large).JPG
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2603292
01/08/19 03:45 AM
01/08/19 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted By fourgearsavoy
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Just curious....... if you had the Richmond trans in the car already...... why did you go back to the 833?


When I first put the Faceplate trans in the car I was racing every other weekend and putting over 100 passes a year on the car and two years ago I didn't even make it to the track once.
I put some street miles on it now so last year I changed it out to a more driver friendly easy to shift cruiser box. The faceplate deal needs to be shifted fast or slow and I wanted to just drive it easy. So over the years I accumulated a very nice set of gears and syncros and put a box together that shifts like butter.

Sorry for the hi-jack Andy

If the fluid change doesn't fix your issue just call me and we can get you fixed up right.

Gus beer


Sounds good. I'm going to spend some time over the next month or so exploring different clutch options. I can easily change the fluid in the trans too. If that doesn't fix it then maybe I'll pull the transmission out next winter and have someone get inside of it.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2603311
01/08/19 09:40 AM
01/08/19 09:40 AM
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Rogue River, OR
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Jeremiah


Also, if you have a chance can you post a few picture of the tunnel and trans cross member. I'm curious how much room you had to make compared to my gf5r. I'd be interested to see if you like my Long H-pattern over the shifter you are using. They are same-same from the DN for the GF.


Thanks for sharing Andy!



Here are a couplwwwe pictures of my existing transmission mount. It is a home built part from back in the 80's when I did this conversion. I didn't have very good fab skills then so it is a solid mount. I'm redoing this crossmember now so I can use a real transmission mount and hopefully cut down on some of the vibration in the car.


C'mon that's not bad at all. A little cutting, a section of tubing and you can squeeze a turbo 400 mount in there. My setup is similar except I cut a section out for the poly turbo 400 mount. I did add a section of .083 5/8 tube to strengthen it.

If you make something super trick I'd buy one as it will surely be superior to my backyard junk. Thanks for sharing that Andy.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634663
03/20/19 01:18 AM
03/20/19 01:18 AM
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Today was dyno day for the new 426W based engine. I used a 4.25 stroke with 7.10 rods and Diamond pistons. Heads are Trick Flow 240 heads and Dwayne came up with a 239/245 hyd roller cam. She made 613 hp at 5800 rpm and 631 ft-lbs at 4800 rpm. Torque was 522 at 3000 rpm where we started the pull and was 529 ft-lbs at 6000 rpm where we stopped the pull. So wall to wall torque. These numbers are about 50 ft-lbs and 40 hp better then the 512 engine which I had in the car so the car is picking up power even though the cam is a bit smaller. I assume that is because the Trick Flow heads are better than the ported RPM heads which the 512 had but it could also be the different intake manifold or the EFI system.

We did all of the dyno tests with a Holley Sniper setup. The Sniper is great to use on the dyno since I can sit in the control room and adjust the ignition timing as well as the jetting. We just hold the engine at a certain rpm and then tweak the timing and the fuel until it is working best and then move to the next point. It really is amazing what just a few degrees of timing will do at part throttle. At 2500 rpm we were able to reduce exhaust temp by 500 degrees by adding some timing. I've had cars in the past that would melt stuff under the hood while driving down the freeway and now I think I know why. Those cars had MSD billet distributors on them which didn't have any vacuum advance. We saw a big difference in exhaust gas temp between 35 degrees and 40 degrees of timing on the dyno at cruise speed. I'm tempted now to install a couple of EGT probes into my headers just to watch this in the car. I've been tuning for fuel consumption and manifold pressure at cruise but now I'm thinking I might also need to keep an eye on EGT.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634664
03/20/19 01:33 AM
03/20/19 01:33 AM
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Pattison Texas
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Thats why I run a vac advance, if its street driven it needs it . right now I have 24 initial, 34 total & an extra 10 on ported vac, it even makes the exhaust tone [drone] much better.

Great #'s y'all got, should be a fun car.

Last edited by csk; 03/20/19 01:34 AM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634669
03/20/19 03:38 AM
03/20/19 03:38 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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What Intake are you using?
Any porting to the heads or intake?

Asking because we are hoping for 600+ HP from the 440 stroked to 505"
440 source kit with light weight crank, 10:1 compression (27cc dish) for junk gas,
Trick Flow 240 with the solid roller springs and Ti retainers, checked, but nothing done to them.
Lunati 40230732LK solid roller cam, 243/249 @ 0.050", 0.617"/0.624" lift with the 1.6:1 rockers.
Planning to use an Edelbrock Victor intake and TTI headers.
EFI might be in the future, but just going to run an old Holley 770 Ultra-avenger for the street, or maybe the 1,000 cfm HP Holley if we dyno it?

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634749
03/20/19 10:57 AM
03/20/19 10:57 AM
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Michigan
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Originally Posted by AndyF
We did all of the dyno tests with a Holley Sniper setup. The Sniper is great to use on the dyno since I can sit in the control room and adjust the ignition timing as well as the jetting. We just hold the engine at a certain rpm and then tweak the timing and the fuel until it is working best and then move to the next point. It really is amazing what just a few degrees of timing will do at part throttle. At 2500 rpm we were able to reduce exhaust temp by 500 degrees by adding some timing. I've had cars in the past that would melt stuff under the hood while driving down the freeway and now I think I know why. Those cars had MSD billet distributors on them which didn't have any vacuum advance. We saw a big difference in exhaust gas temp between 35 degrees and 40 degrees of timing on the dyno at cruise speed. I'm tempted now to install a couple of EGT probes into my headers just to watch this in the car. I've been tuning for fuel consumption and manifold pressure at cruise but now I'm thinking I might also need to keep an eye on EGT.


I observed similar issues last year at the Gratiot cruise with the motor getting warm at speed. Also running an MSD billet distributor. 24 degrees initial, 34 total. I forget what spring is in it. Ended up having to pull the inspection covers over the control arms to get a little more airflow under the hood. Never an issue with cooler weather.

I've got the Holley Sniper distributor though waiting to go in. Need to finish the D60 install first.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: MarkZ] #2634786
03/20/19 11:59 AM
03/20/19 11:59 AM
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The Hyperspark distributor will allow you to build a custom ignition curve that fits your engine. Once you do that you'll be surprised at how much better it runs. The engine builder I work with has been building racing engines for 30 years and he is still shocked when I start tuning the engine on the dyno with the laptop. He understands all of this stuff of course but sometimes the engine wants a timing curve that can't be built with a normal distributor. We sit there in the control room and use the laptop to change timing and then watch the vacuum level, fuel flow and exhaust temp. Sometimes you end up with a timing curve that isn't physically possible in a distributor.

On my Coronet, adding a bunch of timing at cruise speed dropped the fuel consumption by a bunch and the car ran smoother and cooler. No loss of power and no pinging since the extra timing drops off as soon as the manifold pressure increases. Very simple to do with a Sniper and you'll notice the benefits immediately.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: 451Mopar] #2634792
03/20/19 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 451Mopar
What Intake are you using?
Any porting to the heads or intake?

Asking because we are hoping for 600+ HP from the 440 stroked to 505"
440 source kit with light weight crank, 10:1 compression (27cc dish) for junk gas,
Trick Flow 240 with the solid roller springs and Ti retainers, checked, but nothing done to them.
Lunati 40230732LK solid roller cam, 243/249 @ 0.050", 0.617"/0.624" lift with the 1.6:1 rockers.
Planning to use an Edelbrock Victor intake and TTI headers.
EFI might be in the future, but just going to run an old Holley 770 Ultra-avenger for the street, or maybe the 1,000 cfm HP Holley if we dyno it?


The 240 heads are out of the box with the exception of a valve spring change. I went with the Comp conical springs for this engine. I'm using a Trick Flow intake manifold that was deep port matched by Hughes. If you don't have an intake yet then that is what I recommend. Just all Hughes and ask for the deep port matched version. They cost extra and take more time but I think it is the best bang for the buck.

My engine used 780 cfm of air to make 600 hp so that tells you roughly how big of a carb you need. The Holley Sniper is rated at 800 cfm and we had 98 kPa on the MAP during wide open throttle. So not much restriction.

Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634810
03/20/19 12:32 PM
03/20/19 12:32 PM
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Chicago, IL
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Awesome numbers, Andy. The Coronet is going to fly and sounds like a very street friendly combination. On a side note, I wish that trick flow intake would fit under my hood.


2 kids and a dog
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: AndyF] #2634823
03/20/19 01:04 PM
03/20/19 01:04 PM
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Vista, California
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Originally Posted by AndyF


On my Coronet, adding a bunch of timing at cruise speed dropped the fuel consumption by a bunch and the car ran smoother and cooler. No loss of power and no pinging since the extra timing drops off as soon as the manifold pressure increases. Very simple to do with a Sniper and you'll notice the benefits immediately.


Not trying to be a smart a$$ here, just trying to learn. Isn't this the same thing a vacuum advance distributor does? Or does Hyperspark distributor and/or Sniper do this with more finesse or control in some way? Thanks.

Last edited by 67Satty; 03/20/19 01:05 PM.
Re: Winter update for the Coronet [Re: 67Satty] #2634873
03/20/19 03:24 PM
03/20/19 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 67Satty
Originally Posted by AndyF


On my Coronet, adding a bunch of timing at cruise speed dropped the fuel consumption by a bunch and the car ran smoother and cooler. No loss of power and no pinging since the extra timing drops off as soon as the manifold pressure increases. Very simple to do with a Sniper and you'll notice the benefits immediately.


Not trying to be a smart a$$ here, just trying to learn. Isn't this the same thing a vacuum advance distributor does? Or does Hyperspark distributor and/or Sniper do this with more finesse or control in some way? Thanks.


If you ever try to build a full custom timing curve in a distributor you'll know what a huge pain it is. You have to mess around with weights, slots, vacuum pods, and springs on a distributor machine. It can take hours to get it correct. With the Sniper software you just type the numbers you want into the table and you are finished. Some stuff such as high speed retard or start retard you can't do with a distributor. With the Sniper you just tell it what advance you want during cranking. If you want high speed retard you just change the numbers in the table.

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