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Looking for six barrel tuning information #2595806
12/23/18 03:34 PM
12/23/18 03:34 PM
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ruderunner Offline OP
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Sorry I couldn't find the treatise on six barrel tuning. Is it on this site or somewhere else?

I know somebody has a link. Please?


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2595811
12/23/18 03:50 PM
12/23/18 03:50 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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check the archives. there is a section under fuel systems, 440 6pak street performance, carb and timing tips.
the other one [which i think you may be wanting] was by member tom hand[?]. he got rather mad because he kept trying to tell people what he found out really works, but they would either ignore him, or just argue for the sake of arguing with him. i "may" have that saved, but i don't know exactly where.
beer

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2595843
12/23/18 04:55 PM
12/23/18 04:55 PM
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ruderunner Offline OP
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I'll try the archive but yeah I think I'm looking for Hands bit.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2595929
12/23/18 08:20 PM
12/23/18 08:20 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2595994
12/23/18 10:17 PM
12/23/18 10:17 PM
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Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline
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I tried all the Direction Connection "tuning tips" for my 440 six pack & it was terrible. I put the carburetors back to 99% stock with only lighter yellow springs in the outboard carburetors & 1-size smaller primary carburetor jets (#61's) and the car runs night & day better....a stock setup seems like the best (I have cam/headers/moderate head work)


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596137
12/24/18 02:48 AM
12/24/18 02:48 AM
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Cincinnati,Ohio
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jcastle1 Offline
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Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596179
12/24/18 09:05 AM
12/24/18 09:05 AM
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ruderunner Offline OP
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Jcastle, that is the one. Thanks


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: jcastle1] #2596249
12/24/18 01:17 PM
12/24/18 01:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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sorry to have confused you with someone else. my fault. please accept my apologies !
that is the article i was remembering.
beer

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596276
12/24/18 01:51 PM
12/24/18 01:51 PM
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Posts: 733
New York
R/T1968R/T Offline
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6 Barrel Tuning Tips

I highly recommend the outboard billet plates available from Promax Carbs!
The 440-6 Bbl. setup is the best choice for off-road performance enthusiasts. The 1970-71 carbs are the best choice and the proper jetting is listed in another section. The aluminum Edelbrock manifold is PN-3412046. Some of the 1970-71 cars have been built with a cast iron version of this manifold although all the 1969 440-6 bbl.'s had the aluminum manifold. The other items required are:

Installation Kit - PN-3412099 (Manual; PN-3412100 (Auto.) Air Cleaner - PN-3412058.

When using the standard aluminum Edelbrock 3-2 bbl. manifold on the 440 with Holley carbs with air cleaner and no modifications to the engine, the following re-jetting for maximum off-road performance is required:

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carb MMO** .089 drill .089 drill
Center Carbs - Jets #63 #63
Center Carbs - PVCR* .043 drill .052 drill
Rear Carb - MMO .093 drill .086 drill

* Power Valve Channel-Restriction
**Main Metering Orifice (See Figure 9)

NOTE: In all cases the proper size drill is to be used to open up the PVCR, which is located behind the power valve.

For the above Edelbrock manifold system with the manifold heat blocked, with air cleaner and no other changes, the following re-jetting is required:

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carb MMO .089 drill .089 drill
Center Carb – Jets #63 #63
Center Carb – PVCR .041 drill .049 drill
Rear Carb MMO .093 drill .093 drill

For the 440 3-2 bbl. system with a cast iron intake manifold with Holley carbs, with air cleaner and no modifications to the engine, the following re-jetting is required:

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carb - MMO .093 drill .089 drill
Center Carb - Jets #64 #64
Center Carb - PVCR .052 drill .052 drill
Rear Carb - MMO .093 .089

For the 440-6 bbl. cast iron system with the manifold heat blocked, with air cleaner and no other changes, the following re-jetting is required:

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carb - MMO .089 drill .086 drill
Center Carb - Jets #63 #63
Center Carb - PVCR .043 drill .052 drill
Rear Carb - MMO .093 drill .083 drill

Blocking the manifold heat is not recommended because it will result in poor driveability and poor cold weather operation.
The calibrations are not intended for race purposes or with headers or other similar modifications. Also, if the air cleaner is removed, these calibrations will no longer work effectively and require the carb to be reworked. This rework is permanent, requires special tools and should only be done by a carb expert.

To drill out the PVCR, the power valve must be removed. To reassemble, replace power valve and be sure to install the gasket properly.

On some '69 and possibly a few '70 440-6 bbl., the end carbs tend to stick closed. A production change was made which solves this problem and most '70 440-6 bbl. and all 340-6 bbl. should come equipped with these carbs. There are two fixes on these new carbs one for the kill bleed and one for the throttle plate. The kill bleed actuates the end carbs and the change made allows these end carbs to open sooner. Carbs with this change can be identified by a dash one (-l) after the part number of the '69 models. All '70 models have this change. The other change to the throttle plate can be identified in two ways. First, there is a number stamped on the vertical face over the float bowl and if this number is greater than 3149, it has the new throttle plate. By greater than 3149, it is meant newer since that number stands for the date it was made; in this case the 314th day of '69. The other way to identify the new throttle plate is to remove the carb and turn it upside down. The number 199 stamped on the bottom side of the throttle plate means that it is one of the new plates. The number stamped on the older plates is 266.

To determine if the end carbs are stuck, the throttle must be opened manually with the engine shut off. This can be done by gripping the linkage at the center and the end carb so that the throttle of the center carb is fully open and then opening the throttle of the end carb, being sure to keep the center throttle open at the same time. if a loud "pop" or "snap" is heard, then the throttle was stuck and will stick again. The obvious solution to this sticking problem is a set of the new carbs, but the old ones can be fixed. Remove the end carbs and then remove the throttle body. The throttle bore should then be sanded down to the smoothest finish possible. This can be done by starting with 400 paper and then using 600 paper. This is a very difficult procedure and may not result in instant success. Also, as another solution to this problem, the new throttle blades (#199), can be purchased. If this is done and they are installed, the throttle body should be sanded just as a precautionary measure.

RB ENGINE FAMILY
Package - 440-6 Bbl. Super Stocker or Bracket Racer
Carb - Three 2 Bbl. Holley Carbs
Manifold - One-piece Edelbrock Aluminum PN 3412046
Manifold Modifications: Block Manifold Heat
Carb Specifications: Three 2 Bbl. Holley Carbs

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carb Main Rest. .089 .089
Center Carb Jet #63 #63
PVCR .043 .052
Rear Carb Main Rest .093 .093

Yellow springs in end carb diaphragms
Kill bleed - .043
Idle Fuel Rest. - .040
Air Cleaner Open with base plate

340-6 Bbl.

The 340-6 bbl. systems differ from the 440-6 bbl. in carburetor distribution so that the carburetors should not be changed from one system to another. The center carburetor on the 340 has 1-1/2 inch throttle plates while th6 front and rear carburetors have 1-3/4 inch throttle plates.

Practically all stock 340-6 bbl. setups run in a lean condition. The car will probably not idle well at times and may stall frequently. Unbolt the front and rear carburetors and locate the two soft lead plugs at the extreme front of the based. Remove the plugs so that a screwdriver may be applied to the previously hidden idle adjustment screws. One eighth of a turn out (counter-clockwise) on these screws should solve this problem.

In order to ascertain whether the carburetors are running rich or lean, place the tip of your finger (this pertains to the end carburetors only) on either of the outermost air idle bleed holes. If the engine "falls off" (decreases in rpm), the fuel mixture is too rich; conversely, if the engine seems to "pickup" and sound stronger, the fuel mixture is too lean.

If you feel that a jetting change is in order, the main jets in the center carburetor can be swapped. The stock #61's can be changed to #63's if a manual transmission is used or #64's if an automatic is employed. These jetting changes should be used only if the vehicle runs through the stock exhaust system with the air cleaner in place. It is an offroad modification and is not meant for competition.

The 340 six pack does not show any appreciable difference being operated with or without intake manifold heat. If at all possible, run the unit like the factory says, with heat. If you must do without, the automatic choke will cease to function properly. In any case, idle screw adjustment is necessary (by removing the soft lead plugs as we have described) but no main jet changes will be needed for either of the end carburetors. While you have the carburetors off the manifold, check for mismatched gaskets that may be impeding full throttle opening. Sometimes they may be installed backwards and partially cover the throttle bore holes in the intake manifold.

The following is the recommended jetting for the 3406 bbl. on the-aluminum Edelbrock manifold.

340-6 bbl. on Aluminum Edelbrock
A "HOT" Manifold with Air Cleaner

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carburetor PVCR .086 .073
Center Carburetor Jet #63 #63
PVCR .046 .046
Rear Carburetor PVCR .086 .073

Above must have a nozzle #Rl738 installed in the diaphragm side of both the front and rear carburetors.

A "COLD" Manifold with Air Cleaner

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carburetor PVCR .086 .073
Center Carburetor Jet #64 #64
PVCR .046 .046
Rear Carburetor PVCR .086 .073


Nozzle #Rl738 installed in diaphragm side of front and rear carburetors.


rest of the article: http://www.mopar1.us/carbs1.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs2.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs3.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs4.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs5.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs6.jpg http://www.mopar1.us/carbs7.jpg


Last edited by R/T1968R/T; 12/24/18 01:57 PM.
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: R/T1968R/T] #2596341
12/24/18 04:13 PM
12/24/18 04:13 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Other than the cut-n-paste of the DC Bible stuff -- seriously outdated IMO -- I don't know who the other sources are.

Tom Hand (the F.A.S.T. racer, right?) and I had some similar ideas on tuning 6-BBL setups, and I'm sure lots of folks would still disagree with them. Some of our preferences were the results of our respective track testing, which doesn't always jive with butt-dyno tests.

Example: IIRC, both of our best 60-ft times were using the brown springs (one softer than the stiffest black springs). No, you don't feel them "kick in" like softer springs, but that sensation can mean the engine is hesitating slightly when the outboard carbs are opening.

Get a baseline tune, test your changes, and come to your own conclusions.

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596386
12/24/18 05:51 PM
12/24/18 05:51 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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First step would be to put a wide band in the head pipe. Second step is to do whatever the wide band tells you to do.

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596472
12/24/18 08:43 PM
12/24/18 08:43 PM
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Posts: 953
Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline
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I'm with BradH on this one.... and start from a 100% stock baseline & go from there. The list posted by R/T1968R/T is exactly what I used to absolutely kill the performance, idle, overall fuel mixture, etc. of my six pack setup before putting it back to nearly stock.

I did use some of the Promax front/rear plates, but that was ONLY because I couldn't locate one of the stock '70 outboard plates. I set the Promax ones to completely stock specifications.

Promax's idle fuel bleeds are WAY larger than stock. They're not listed on the Promax site, but if you call them, you can get them. They screw in with a tiny allen wrench. I had to heat one corner of one plate (yikes!) to get out one of the idle fuel bleads on mine.


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2596618
12/25/18 02:15 AM
12/25/18 02:15 AM
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Cincinnati,Ohio
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jcastle1 Offline
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if you ned any advice, I've had mine for 20 years on 2 different builds.
They work flawless

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2597123
12/26/18 01:46 PM
12/26/18 01:46 PM
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Posts: 4,540
Motor City
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6PKRTSE Offline
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I have never gone by of all of the six pack "bible" or specs as always given by others, every car is different. I tune mine accordingly & kept adjusting as needed. I literally have not touched my carbs now in 8-10 years or maybe more it has been so long. It starts right up with a couple of pumps every time & I drive the heck out of it all season long until it starts to snow.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: 6PKRTSE] #2597143
12/26/18 02:20 PM
12/26/18 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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I agree 100 % !

Been at this a long time, never had a problem running or other wise. Most of the tuning information seems to be over simplified, as said above one size does not fit all. My bird can sit for months, press the pedal a few times, starts, back it out of the garage and drive away, been the same for 30 + yrs.
Every set of carbs I do go back the way they came when new, no modifications, every application is different so after that you're on your own.

PB070472.JPG
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: ruderunner] #2600471
01/02/19 03:44 PM
01/02/19 03:44 PM
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Frederiction. New Brunswick ,C...
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RTshaker Offline
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In Below text ;pertaining to the 340 carbs What is nozzle RI 738 ?
A "COLD" Manifold with Air Cleaner

Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
Front Carburetor PVCR .086 .073
Center Carburetor Jet #64 #64
PVCR .046 .046
Rear Carburetor PVCR .086 .073


Nozzle #Rl738 installed in diaphragm side of front and rear carburetors.

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: RTshaker] #2600575
01/02/19 07:21 PM
01/02/19 07:21 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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I suspect that refers to a special booster venturi that has an additional fuel distribution tab built into the booster body.

Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: BradH] #2600740
01/03/19 12:27 AM
01/03/19 12:27 AM
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Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
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Originally Posted By BradH
I suspect that refers to a special booster venturi that has an additional fuel distribution tab built into the booster body.


I recall something about a booster with a mixture distribution tab on it. I bet it comes from an R1738 Holley 4 bbl. Late 50's Mercury. Good luck with that one.

Last edited by GomangoCuda; 01/03/19 12:34 AM.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Looking for six barrel tuning information [Re: GomangoCuda] #2600759
01/03/19 01:05 AM
01/03/19 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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I think the AAR /TA carbs,4791 and 4792 have those tabs,will look to be sure.







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